Letterboxing USA - Yahoo Groups Archive

Concise Directions

132 messages in this thread | Started on 2007-08-12

Concise Directions

From: Rusty Judd (r2judd@bestweb.net) | Date: 2007-08-12 08:30:34 UTC-04:00
Do any of you letterbox folks feel this way at times -- I know we do --- I'd
like to ask that when you hide a letterbox, your clues on finding it are as
clear as possible. YOU know where it is; WE don't. When you say its the
tree that looks like an aardvark 50 paces to the left of the big rock ----
well maybe the tree doesn't look like an aardvark to me and in a woodsy
setting there are 500000000000 rocks.

I cant tell you how many we have gone to find following clues like walk up
the road til you find a big tree with a branch that hangs low.
In nature preserves and parks there are a ton of trees with branches that
hang low.

Also, if you plant a box in the spring be aware that by august the weeds and
vines will grow and make it more difficult to find ---- if not impossible if
you have to cut thru vines and poison ivy etc to get to it,

Remember too that naturally occurring landmarks like trees or stumps or
whatever can be cut down or moved or blown over in storms ----- the tree or
log that may be lying across the stream in Nov may no longer be there next
April or May. The tree that looked like an aardvark may have blown over and
now looks like a dead hippo on the ground.

We really enjoy taking a nice sunny Saturday afternoon to get out and search
for these but many times our adventurous outing just turns to frustration
because someone has written "walk down the road til you find a stone wall
and the box is on the left of the stone wall" when it is actually on the
right. Across from the big white and yellow house -- when it actuality it
was not across from it but a half mile down the road and around a corner.
(Two clues from a recent letter box with details changed a bit to not point
to anyone specific)

I know the fun of letterboxing is the hunt but when it gets frustrating
because the clues are vague or just wrong it really does tend to put a
damper on the fun.

The Sleeping Puppies





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [LbNA] Concise Directions

From: tony pecchia (anthony.pecchia@cox.net) | Date: 2007-08-12 09:40:07 UTC-04:00
My favorite was the clue that said, (and this is inside a forest) "20 paces to a tree that's sticking out of the ground." As opposed to what, one that's hanging from the sky?

Tony

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Concise Directions

From: bret bridwell (dekulink69@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-08-12 14:36:36 UTC

i dont want to have to start a flame war, but come on. why dont we
just wait by the tree and hand you the letterbox so you can just
drive by without having to get out of your car???
this is what make letterboxing what it is. having to search for our
little gems that were created for us to find.
if you dont like having to search for the creations of others, then
join the postal groups and wait for them to come to you in the
mail..i dont have anything against postals. i have done many in the
past. and they are letterboxes to me too.

it just irks me when someone complains about someone elses hard work
and effort to create something special for us who are serious about
this sport/hobby/addiction. ya, we all dont find every letterbox that
is hidden. and yes sometimes nature does tend to get in the way with
growing things around our hiding spots. but thats what makes it
interesting.
and yes, sometimes the clues are off. so send the planter a message
and ask if they can help with the clues. or try from a different
direction or come back another day and try again with a fresh
perspective..
but to want the directions to lead you right to the exact spot
without any sense of searching/finding??? thats not letterboxing to
me. the thrill of the hunt/search is what does it for me. and the
little gem that was planted for me to find is the added reward. such
talent that we all have. carving images out of rubber. hiding plastic
boxes in the bushes that sometimes dont ever get discovered. and
taking me to wondeful sights that i might never have discovered
before.
thats my rant for the day. thanx for listening.
later,dragonrider













--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Rusty Judd wrote:
>
> Do any of you letterbox folks feel this way at times -- I know we
do --- I'd
> like to ask that when you hide a letterbox, your clues on finding
it are as
> clear as possible. YOU know where it is; WE don't. When you say
its the
> tree that looks like an aardvark 50 paces to the left of the big
rock ----
> well maybe the tree doesn't look like an aardvark to me and in a
woodsy
> setting there are 500000000000 rocks.
>
> I cant tell you how many we have gone to find following clues
like walk up
> the road til you find a big tree with a branch that hangs low.
> In nature preserves and parks there are a ton of trees with
branches that
> hang low.
>
> Also, if you plant a box in the spring be aware that by august the
weeds and
> vines will grow and make it more difficult to find ---- if not
impossible if
> you have to cut thru vines and poison ivy etc to get to it,
>
> Remember too that naturally occurring landmarks like trees or
stumps or
> whatever can be cut down or moved or blown over in storms ----- the
tree or
> log that may be lying across the stream in Nov may no longer be
there next
> April or May. The tree that looked like an aardvark may have blown
over and
> now looks like a dead hippo on the ground.
>
> We really enjoy taking a nice sunny Saturday afternoon to get out
and search
> for these but many times our adventurous outing just turns to
frustration
> because someone has written "walk down the road til you find a
stone wall
> and the box is on the left of the stone wall" when it is actually
on the
> right. Across from the big white and yellow house -- when it
actuality it
> was not across from it but a half mile down the road and around a
corner.
> (Two clues from a recent letter box with details changed a bit to
not point
> to anyone specific)
>
> I know the fun of letterboxing is the hunt but when it gets
frustrating
> because the clues are vague or just wrong it really does tend to
put a
> damper on the fun.
>
> The Sleeping Puppies
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



RE: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Maiden (maiden1974@verizon.net) | Date: 2007-08-12 09:32:22 UTC-07:00
Here here Dragonrider!



Yesterday I spent an entire afternoon searching for one box. I loaded my
family into a boat, powered across two rivers, and landed on a beautiful
beach. We then proceeded to see a beautiful heron, several large boats,
watch the jet skiers, swim, dig in the sand, watch the hermit crabs scuttle
across the beach, and watch the kids play on their "wake board". I didn't
find the box. I searched and searched. I found poison oak, stinging nettles,
and blackberries. My legs, arms, and head were all bleeding before I gave
up. Was I upset that I didn't find it? Nope. Disappointed slightly? Yes. But
you know what? It was an amazing day and I thanked the placer for sending me
to such a wonderful location.



It's about the journey, the stamp is simply the physical memory!



Maiden



_____

From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of bret bridwell
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 7:37 AM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions




i dont want to have to start a flame war, but come on. why dont we
just wait by the tree and hand you the letterbox so you can just
drive by without having to get out of your car???
this is what make letterboxing what it is. having to search for our
little gems that were created for us to find.
if you dont like having to search for the creations of others, then
join the postal groups and wait for them to come to you in the
mail..i dont have anything against postals. i have done many in the
past. and they are letterboxes to me too.

it just irks me when someone complains about someone elses hard work
and effort to create something special for us who are serious about
this sport/hobby/addiction. ya, we all dont find every letterbox that
is hidden. and yes sometimes nature does tend to get in the way with
growing things around our hiding spots. but thats what makes it
interesting.
and yes, sometimes the clues are off. so send the planter a message
and ask if they can help with the clues. or try from a different
direction or come back another day and try again with a fresh
perspective..
but to want the directions to lead you right to the exact spot
without any sense of searching/finding??? thats not letterboxing to
me. the thrill of the hunt/search is what does it for me. and the
little gem that was planted for me to find is the added reward. such
talent that we all have. carving images out of rubber. hiding plastic
boxes in the bushes that sometimes dont ever get discovered. and
taking me to wondeful sights that i might never have discovered
before.
thats my rant for the day. thanx for listening.
later,dragonrider

--- In letterbox-usa@
yahoogroups.com, Rusty Judd wrote:
>
> Do any of you letterbox folks feel this way at times -- I know we
do --- I'd
> like to ask that when you hide a letterbox, your clues on finding
it are as
> clear as possible. YOU know where it is; WE don't. When you say
its the
> tree that looks like an aardvark 50 paces to the left of the big
rock ----
> well maybe the tree doesn't look like an aardvark to me and in a
woodsy
> setting there are 500000000000 rocks.
>
> I cant tell you how many we have gone to find following clues
like walk up
> the road til you find a big tree with a branch that hangs low.
> In nature preserves and parks there are a ton of trees with
branches that
> hang low.
>
> Also, if you plant a box in the spring be aware that by august the
weeds and
> vines will grow and make it more difficult to find ---- if not
impossible if
> you have to cut thru vines and poison ivy etc to get to it,
>
> Remember too that naturally occurring landmarks like trees or
stumps or
> whatever can be cut down or moved or blown over in storms ----- the
tree or
> log that may be lying across the stream in Nov may no longer be
there next
> April or May. The tree that looked like an aardvark may have blown
over and
> now looks like a dead hippo on the ground.
>
> We really enjoy taking a nice sunny Saturday afternoon to get out
and search
> for these but many times our adventurous outing just turns to
frustration
> because someone has written "walk down the road til you find a
stone wall
> and the box is on the left of the stone wall" when it is actually
on the
> right. Across from the big white and yellow house -- when it
actuality it
> was not across from it but a half mile down the road and around a
corner.
> (Two clues from a recent letter box with details changed a bit to
not point
> to anyone specific)
>
> I know the fun of letterboxing is the hunt but when it gets
frustrating
> because the clues are vague or just wrong it really does tend to
put a
> damper on the fun.
>
> The Sleeping Puppies
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


RE: [LbNA] Concise Directions

From: Maiden (maiden1974@verizon.net) | Date: 2007-08-12 09:33:02 UTC-07:00




_____

From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of tony pecchia
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 6:40 AM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Concise Directions



My favorite was the clue that said, (and this is inside a forest) "20 paces
to a tree that's sticking out of the ground." As opposed to what, one that's
hanging from the sky?

Tony

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


RE: [LbNA] Concise Directions

From: Maiden (maiden1974@verizon.net) | Date: 2007-08-12 09:33:57 UTC-07:00
One of my favorite letterboxing "rules" is "if there's doubt, keep walking,
the "real" spot is probably just around the corner.



Maiden



_____

From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of tony pecchia
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 6:40 AM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Concise Directions



My favorite was the clue that said, (and this is inside a forest) "20 paces
to a tree that's sticking out of the ground." As opposed to what, one that's
hanging from the sky?

Tony

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


RE: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Mark Pepe (mjpepe1@comcast.net) | Date: 2007-08-12 12:41:20 UTC-04:00
I agree with Dragonrider. No one ever said this is easy.

If you get discouraged, maybe this hobby isn't for you.

Different placers use different clue techniques - whether on purpose or not.

We should be thankful for their efforts.



Mark





-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of bret bridwell
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 10:37 AM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions




i dont want to have to start a flame war, but come on. why dont we
just wait by the tree and hand you the letterbox so you can just
drive by without having to get out of your car???
this is what make letterboxing what it is. having to search for our
little gems that were created for us to find.
if you dont like having to search for the creations of others, then
join the postal groups and wait for them to come to you in the
mail..i dont have anything against postals. i have done many in the
past. and they are letterboxes to me too.

it just irks me when someone complains about someone elses hard work
and effort to create something special for us who are serious about
this sport/hobby/addiction. ya, we all dont find every letterbox that
is hidden. and yes sometimes nature does tend to get in the way with
growing things around our hiding spots. but thats what makes it
interesting.
and yes, sometimes the clues are off. so send the planter a message
and ask if they can help with the clues. or try from a different
direction or come back another day and try again with a fresh
perspective..
but to want the directions to lead you right to the exact spot
without any sense of searching/finding??? thats not letterboxing to
me. the thrill of the hunt/search is what does it for me. and the
little gem that was planted for me to find is the added reward. such
talent that we all have. carving images out of rubber. hiding plastic
boxes in the bushes that sometimes dont ever get discovered. and
taking me to wondeful sights that i might never have discovered
before.
thats my rant for the day. thanx for listening.
later,dragonrider

--- In letterbox-usa@
yahoogroups.com, Rusty Judd wrote:
>
> Do any of you letterbox folks feel this way at times -- I know we
do --- I'd
> like to ask that when you hide a letterbox, your clues on finding
it are as
> clear as possible. YOU know where it is; WE don't. When you say
its the
> tree that looks like an aardvark 50 paces to the left of the big
rock ----
> well maybe the tree doesn't look like an aardvark to me and in a
woodsy
> setting there are 500000000000 rocks.
>
> I cant tell you how many we have gone to find following clues
like walk up
> the road til you find a big tree with a branch that hangs low.
> In nature preserves and parks there are a ton of trees with
branches that
> hang low.
>
> Also, if you plant a box in the spring be aware that by august the
weeds and
> vines will grow and make it more difficult to find ---- if not
impossible if
> you have to cut thru vines and poison ivy etc to get to it,
>
> Remember too that naturally occurring landmarks like trees or
stumps or
> whatever can be cut down or moved or blown over in storms ----- the
tree or
> log that may be lying across the stream in Nov may no longer be
there next
> April or May. The tree that looked like an aardvark may have blown
over and
> now looks like a dead hippo on the ground.
>
> We really enjoy taking a nice sunny Saturday afternoon to get out
and search
> for these but many times our adventurous outing just turns to
frustration
> because someone has written "walk down the road til you find a
stone wall
> and the box is on the left of the stone wall" when it is actually
on the
> right. Across from the big white and yellow house -- when it
actuality it
> was not across from it but a half mile down the road and around a
corner.
> (Two clues from a recent letter box with details changed a bit to
not point
> to anyone specific)
>
> I know the fun of letterboxing is the hunt but when it gets
frustrating
> because the clues are vague or just wrong it really does tend to
put a
> damper on the fun.
>
> The Sleeping Puppies
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [LbNA] Concise Directions

From: ruhlette (ruhlette@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-08-12 09:44:22 UTC-07:00
I, for one, never expect to find all directions as clear as possible, and
I would never demand it of others. When we set out to find a letterbox,
we don't have an expectation that we will find it, but we hope we will,
and we hope to see something outstanding or interesting in the pursuit.

If you see the clues indicate an aardvark (or in my clues, a crocodile),
it would be wise to look up an image before you start your hunt. I also
make a mental note of the plant date before I give up looking, for
precisely the reasons you state. My Dorf der Turmspitzen has not be
"found" yet, and when I went to check on it, there was no way I was going
to confirm it. The area was overflowing in poison ivy. I will check
again come winter. Landscapes can change quickly and planters don't
naturally check on boxes daily.

In a perfect world, you could notify the planters when you plan to hunt
for the letterboxes, giving them enough time to check on it and report
back to you that "it's there!" If you are looking for guarantees, you may
be disappointed more often. As far as accuracy in writing clues, we can't
always be 100% perfect. When I find myself scratching my head, I laugh
and think, "they aren't going to make me give up THAT quickly. Now let's
figure it out. I'm responsible how I feel about the experience, and I
don't blame planters or woodland critters or previous finders if I feel
cheated.

~speedsquare



____________________________________________________________________________________
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.
http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/

RE: [LbNA] Concise Directions

From: (letterbox@comcast.net) | Date: 2007-08-12 16:52:58 UTC
Oh how true!!!

SC

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Maiden"
> One of my favorite letterboxing "rules" is "if there's doubt, keep walking,
> the "real" spot is probably just around the corner.
>
>
>
> Maiden
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of tony pecchia
> Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 6:40 AM
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [LbNA] Concise Directions
>
>
>
> My favorite was the clue that said, (and this is inside a forest) "20 paces
> to a tree that's sticking out of the ground." As opposed to what, one that's
> hanging from the sky?
>
> Tony
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [LbNA] Concise Directions

From: (letterbox@comcast.net) | Date: 2007-08-12 17:10:13 UTC
I can certainly understand your frustration, we have all been there, hunting under every big rock in a field of big rocks, taking the indicated bearing at every other tree along the trail because the clues said to head 243 degrees at the oak tree... all the while cursing the placer for not being more precise -- but that is all a part of the game. I for one, find it much less fun and far less gratifying when a set of clues lead me straight to a letterbox, with no questions or doubts as to how something should be interpreted or which one-eyed tree was the indicated landmark.

Letterboxing is a hunt. You aren't supposed to just be able to follow the directions straight to the box. Think about treasure hunts of old -- people looked for years to find hidden treasures and loot that had been buried and marked on hastily drawn maps.

Many people make their clues vague intentionally to create a challenge and make the finder think a little (hooray for creativity!). Admittedly in some instances it is a true case of a typo or wrong direction (i.e. particularly when the planter writes the clues going backward), but even then as a finder you should always try every possibility you can think of -- if the box is not in the roots of the big tree on the left, perhaps it is on the right; if there is no fork in the trail at 90 degrees, perhaps they mean the fork at 270 degrees.

The great thing about letterboxing is that there is something for everyone. There are enough boxes whose clues do lead you straight to the box that if that is more your style, you can choose to do those (you can usually tell just by reading through the clues how precise or vague they are).

Not every box is for every person -- not every hike is for every person, not every clue is for every person... and you're not going to find every box you look for.

SpringChick


-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Rusty Judd
> Do any of you letterbox folks feel this way at times -- I know we do --- I'd
> like to ask that when you hide a letterbox, your clues on finding it are as
> clear as possible. YOU know where it is; WE don't. When you say its the
> tree that looks like an aardvark 50 paces to the left of the big rock ----
> well maybe the tree doesn't look like an aardvark to me and in a woodsy
> setting there are 500000000000 rocks.
>
> I cant tell you how many we have gone to find following clues like walk up
> the road til you find a big tree with a branch that hangs low.
> In nature preserves and parks there are a ton of trees with branches that
> hang low.
>
> Also, if you plant a box in the spring be aware that by august the weeds and
> vines will grow and make it more difficult to find ---- if not impossible if
> you have to cut thru vines and poison ivy etc to get to it,
>
> Remember too that naturally occurring landmarks like trees or stumps or
> whatever can be cut down or moved or blown over in storms ----- the tree or
> log that may be lying across the stream in Nov may no longer be there next
> April or May. The tree that looked like an aardvark may have blown over and
> now looks like a dead hippo on the ground.
>
> We really enjoy taking a nice sunny Saturday afternoon to get out and search
> for these but many times our adventurous outing just turns to frustration
> because someone has written "walk down the road til you find a stone wall
> and the box is on the left of the stone wall" when it is actually on the
> right. Across from the big white and yellow house -- when it actuality it
> was not across from it but a half mile down the road and around a corner.
> (Two clues from a recent letter box with details changed a bit to not point
> to anyone specific)
>
> I know the fun of letterboxing is the hunt but when it gets frustrating
> because the clues are vague or just wrong it really does tend to put a
> damper on the fun.
>
> The Sleeping Puppies
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


[LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Brian, Ryan & Lori (teamgreendragon2003@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-08-12 17:37:34 UTC

It's the thrill of the hunt for me. The more obstacles thrown in the
mix the better. None of the best boxes I've found have been easy. Sure
following some easy clues to a so-so box is a great way to kill an
afternoon and does get me out in the woods. I do appreciate these but
they in no way compare to the thrill of overcoming the challenge of a
good mystery. I'd rather spend a day climbing a mountain or two just
to verify that they are not the place I need to be to find a Mapsurfer
box any time.

Brian
TeamGreenDragon


[LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: azobox (jparkerg@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-08-12 18:07:50 UTC
Perhaps some seekers are expecting directions and all they're given
are clues.


azobox




Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Randy Hall (randy@mapsurfer.com) | Date: 2007-08-12 13:14:57 UTC-05:00

> i dont want to have to start a flame war,

Don't worry, you didn't. It is quite possible for
reasonable people to talk about this without doing so.

It seems interesting to point out a couple of things,
at least on the surface, that seem true --

It is easy for hunters do decide which clues to do after
reading them; OTOH, tho possible, it is much more difficult
for cryptic clue writers to choose their hunters. Just
a thought.

Antecodal evidence (or at least what I hear, from my limited
hole), is that clue writers make more mistakes than hunters :)

Be all that as it may, don't people see the beauty in the
semiotics of letterbox clues? Here you have a platonic,
real location, with zero information loss at the time and
place of planting. Then, thru the map of the writer and
time decay from time of planting 'til time of reading,
you have three points of information loss (the time decay,
the writer's map, and the role of the reader against that
map). IMHO, all art in our world, whether it be music,
poetry, whatever, is what it is because of the dissonance of
information loss between the concept, artist, and artee (for
lack of a better word), and isn't that "Ah!" when we connect
with the artist's perception of the platonic concept really
cool? (that is, clearing away the grime of this dissonance;
what Jim Morrision, or was it Huxley, called "The Doors or
Perception"). That "oh, I get it" feeling. I'm in this,
for that. People who aren't will find this post quite bizarre,
and I respect that opinion, just don't flame me for mine --
agree to disagree.

And to think yoyos like you and me can do this thru something
as simple as letterboxing clues. And that doesn't even count
the hike, the journey, or the thrill of the hike, even if
somebody put in under the wrong rock (like who cares, once
you get thru the fun part. Turning over rocks is boring
and bad for my back anyway :)).

JMHO.

BTW, I think it can be fun to do boxes with errors. It is an
extra line of puzzle to try to figure what error the placer
made when you think you are correct. And how do you know its
an error anyway? You don't until you find the box, and even
in that case, someone may have moved it. With so much badness
in the world, I think people should be grateful for free
art and entertainment in these clues.

Cheers
Randy

RE: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: xxxxxxxx (BrighidFarm@comcast.net) | Date: 2007-08-12 13:42:58 UTC-05:00
And think of all the Buried Pirates Treasure that would no longer be buried
if pirates had actually written out turn-by-turn directions. My word, we
might have actually found some of it and destroyed the romantic quests!!

Where would the Holy Grail be if it could be found? Horrors!

I heard that mapquest was invented by a guy who went down to the Caribbean
searching for a buried pirate's chest filled with jewels and gold coins but
the lousy pirates had been lazy and and all they had done was draw out this
stupid vague map. When the guy found the map in an old abandoned shack he
was livid and vowed that all islands, coves, and roads would henceforth be
named and CONCISELY mapped out. And he made his fortune on mapquest so his
Caribbean vacation turned out fine in the end anyway.

And where would today's top chefs be (aka our grandmothers) if they had to
follow recipes with concise directions? On the other hand, some of my
grandmother's greatest recipes wouldn't now be buried with her brain. (But
then it's not grandma's fault that nobody in the family thought for a moment
to get concise until well after grandma had died.)

~~ Mosey ~~

P.S.: I think the reason concise directions wouldn't appeal to me anyway is
because I'll manage to get lost even with the most concise of directions.
That's why I'm a closet cartographer -- emphasis on the word "closet" --
because I'd hate for anyone to know that I actually should know what I'm
doing with a map. And getting lost sometimes ends up being the best part of
the day.



-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of azobox
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 1:08 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions


Perhaps some seekers are expecting directions and all they're given
are clues.


azobox









Re: [LbNA] Concise Directions

From: Kirbert (PalmK@nettally.com) | Date: 2007-08-12 16:05:20 UTC-04:00
ruhlette wrote:

> I, for one, never expect to find all directions as clear as possible,
> and I would never demand it of others.

I've been fortunate in that finders consistently compliment me on how
clear my directions are. They apparently really love clear
directions.

To my mind, there's a difference between directions that are tricky
and directions that are unclear or confusing. Tricky is good,
unclear or confusing is not.

Fortunately, I have a wife who is good at testing clues for me. I
hand them to her, if she can understand them, anyone can.

-- Kirbert

RE: [LbNA] Concise Directions

From: Kirbert (PalmK@nettally.com) | Date: 2007-08-12 16:05:20 UTC-04:00
Maiden wrote:

> One of my favorite letterboxing "rules" is "if there's doubt, keep
> walking, the "real" spot is probably just around the corner.

Yeah, the one where the clue says "turn left and walk to the orange
sign" and it turns out that the orange sign is 8 miles away.

The one that bothers me more is the one that says "turn left" and
then in the next paragraph says "walk all the way to the orange sign"
and the orange sign is about ten feet from where you turned left. By
the time you read the next paragraph, you've already passed the sign.
Then you hike 8 miles looking for an orange sign.

Back in the day, I participated in some road rallies. The directions
were always a trip. One time there was a set of instructions that
read:

**********

Pass a left.

Pass 2nd left.

Turn left.

**********

That means you take the 4th left. Y'see, the rules say that each
instruction is independent. "Pass 2nd left" means that, after
passing a left, you then pass two more lefts. There were a lot of
very miffed competitors that day!

-- Kirbert

Re: [LbNA] Concise Directions

From: (davyschris@aol.com) | Date: 2007-08-12 16:44:41 UTC-04:00
Well, here's my take on it:

They're clues, not directions. See what I mean? Some boxes are very very
simple to find. Others are a bit of a challenge. That's why we hunt them, we
search them, we try to find them. There are some boxes I've had to return to a
couple of times because I just couldn't find them. There are ones I still
haven't been able to find, despite looking for them a few times.

I'm not going to lie to you; I love a good driveby from time to time, but
they're not all supposed to be super easy. How fun would this actually be if it
was so simple every time? I have a box in California that cracks me up,
because every other report I get is found, attempted, found, attempted. Sometimes
people ask me to clarify the clues for them. It's not that I don't want to,
but I don't live out there, so I can't go back and check around and see what
else is there that I can use as a landmark. But obviously, they're good enough,
because a lot of people do find it.

I'm pretty sure we can leave it up to the planters when it comes to how many
landmarks and how much they want to feed us. That's the challenge that makes
this game so fun!

Brandy


**************************************
Get a sneak peek
of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Baker (knightbaker63@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-08-12 21:23:37 UTC
This really captures for me what letterboxing is for me. I really
like finding the box, but being brought to a nice location or
learning a little known local history is way more important to me.

Best regards,

Baker

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Maiden" wrote:
>
> Here here Dragonrider!
>
>
>
> Yesterday I spent an entire afternoon searching for one box. I
loaded my
> family into a boat, powered across two rivers, and landed on a
beautiful
> beach. We then proceeded to see a beautiful heron, several large
boats,
> watch the jet skiers, swim, dig in the sand, watch the hermit crabs
scuttle
> across the beach, and watch the kids play on their "wake board". I
didn't
> find the box. I searched and searched. I found poison oak, stinging
nettles,
> and blackberries. My legs, arms, and head were all bleeding before
I gave
> up. Was I upset that I didn't find it? Nope. Disappointed slightly?
Yes. But
> you know what? It was an amazing day and I thanked the placer for
sending me
> to such a wonderful location.
>
>
>
> It's about the journey, the stamp is simply the physical memory!
>
>
>
> Maiden
>
>



Re: [LbNA] Concise Directions

From: Baker (knightbaker63@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-08-12 21:28:13 UTC
I am always relieved when I either check my logbook or some one logs
in a find of one of my new boxes, so I know that I was clear enough
with my clues.

Baker

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Kirbert" wrote:
>
> ruhlette wrote:
>
> > I, for one, never expect to find all directions as clear as
possible,
> > and I would never demand it of others.
>
> I've been fortunate in that finders consistently compliment me on
how
> clear my directions are. They apparently really love clear
> directions.
>
> To my mind, there's a difference between directions that are tricky
> and directions that are unclear or confusing. Tricky is good,
> unclear or confusing is not.
>
> Fortunately, I have a wife who is good at testing clues for me. I
> hand them to her, if she can understand them, anyone can.
>
> -- Kirbert
>



Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Clueless (CluelessBoxer@gmail.com) | Date: 2007-08-12 17:39:38 UTC-04:00
I'm right there with you, Brian. I can think of several boxes that totally
rock and have no directions; just a word, and you get yourself there (xoxox
to the planter).

However, I DO think there is something to be said for concise directions
when it comes time to actually find the box, particularly when a box is
hidden in a sensitive area or a stone wall. Sometimes after you've turned
over 20 rocks, you step back and survey the scene, and it looks like a fight
has taken place. It's terrible to realize that in your desire for a find
you're the one that made that mess. One wonders what later passersby
think...and if it draws them in for a look. (Yes, of course if I realize
I've made a mess I try to undo it...but better not to make it in the first
place.)

On 8/12/07, Brian, Ryan & Lori wrote:
>
>
> It's the thrill of the hunt for me. The more obstacles thrown in the
> mix the better. None of the best boxes I've found have been easy. Sure
> following some easy clues to a so-so box is a great way to kill an
> afternoon and does get me out in the woods. I do appreciate these but
> they in no way compare to the thrill of overcoming the challenge of a
> good mystery. I'd rather spend a day climbing a mountain or two just
> to verify that they are not the place I need to be to find a Mapsurfer
> box any time.
>
> Brian
> TeamGreenDragon
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [LbNA] Concise Directions

From: R (ontario_cacher@yahoo.ca) | Date: 2007-08-12 20:34:31 UTC-04:00
Speedsquare wrote: My Dorf der Turmspitzen has not be
"found" yet, and when I went to check on it, there was no way I was going
to confirm it. The area was overflowing in poison ivy. I will check
again come winter.
------------

I have a letterbox in a Tract that is an 11/10 on the mosquito scale from late May to late August. I really don't want to have to check on it during those months. I put a note on my clue page that it's 'VERY BUGGY - wear repellent'. That way I hope people are suitably prepared with DEET and mosquito netting - west nile virus is a possibility so I hope everyone takes precautions - either don't go during the summer months or wear protection. I haven't yet had an "attempt" report on the box but if I did I'd add a note that I'd check on it once the mosquitos died down.

I have a cache where someone reported being stung by at least 5 bees when trying to pull the box out of the stump and then being chased out of the forest by the rest of the swarm. I immediately "temporarily archived" it so that no one else would come to the same fate. Some people are deathly allergic to bee stings. Some people may not realize they are seriously allergic until they are stung.

I like to give people the info they need to make their own decisions about whether they want to seek the box based on time of year, their comfort level and the health risks they're willing to take.

Lone R


---------------------------------
Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Concise Directions

From: Giddy (giddyworm@hotmail.com) | Date: 2007-08-13 00:43:19 UTC
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Randy Hall wrote:
>
>
> > i dont want to have to start a flame war,
>
> Don't worry, you didn't. It is quite possible for
> reasonable people to talk about this without doing so.
>
> It seems interesting to point out a couple of things,
> at least on the surface, that seem true --
>
> It is easy for hunters do decide which clues to do after
> reading them; OTOH, tho possible, it is much more difficult
> for cryptic clue writers to choose their hunters. Just
> a thought.
>
> Antecodal evidence (or at least what I hear, from my limited
> hole), is that clue writers make more mistakes than hunters :)
>
> Be all that as it may, don't people see the beauty in the
> semiotics of letterbox clues? Here you have a platonic,
> real location, with zero information loss at the time and
> place of planting. Then, thru the map of the writer and
> time decay from time of planting 'til time of reading,
> you have three points of information loss (the time decay,
> the writer's map, and the role of the reader against that
> map). IMHO, all art in our world, whether it be music,
> poetry, whatever, is what it is because of the dissonance of
> information loss between the concept, artist, and artee (for
> lack of a better word), and isn't that "Ah!" when we connect
> with the artist's perception of the platonic concept really
> cool? (that is, clearing away the grime of this dissonance;
> what Jim Morrision, or was it Huxley, called "The Doors or
> Perception"). That "oh, I get it" feeling. I'm in this,
> for that. People who aren't will find this post quite bizarre,
> and I respect that opinion, just don't flame me for mine --
> agree to disagree.
>
> And to think yoyos like you and me can do this thru something
> as simple as letterboxing clues. And that doesn't even count
> the hike, the journey, or the thrill of the hike, even if
> somebody put in under the wrong rock (like who cares, once
> you get thru the fun part. Turning over rocks is boring
> and bad for my back anyway :)).
>
> JMHO.
>
> BTW, I think it can be fun to do boxes with errors. It is an
> extra line of puzzle to try to figure what error the placer
> made when you think you are correct. And how do you know its
> an error anyway? You don't until you find the box, and even
> in that case, someone may have moved it. With so much badness
> in the world, I think people should be grateful for free
> art and entertainment in these clues.
>
> Cheers
> Randy
>
Wow, well said. It is facinating and gratifying to see one's own
thoughts or feelings lucidly wriiten out by another.

Giddy


[LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: CompassPoints (ltrboxingrichters@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-08-13 01:24:13 UTC
I tend to write my clues exact to every detail. My husband hates
this! His theory is you should say "go to X town. Ask a local person
where the X is. Look around." lol. He loves involving the locals,
whether they want to be or not.

However, he also is in this for the hike and picking up trash as we
go. He humors us when we stop for a few moments for the box.

I guess the point is, to each his own.

Kim
Compass Points


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Brian, Ryan & Lori"
wrote:
>
>
> It's the thrill of the hunt for me. The more obstacles thrown in the
> mix the better. None of the best boxes I've found have been easy. Sure
> following some easy clues to a so-so box is a great way to kill an
> afternoon and does get me out in the woods. I do appreciate these but
> they in no way compare to the thrill of overcoming the challenge of a
> good mystery. I'd rather spend a day climbing a mountain or two just
> to verify that they are not the place I need to be to find a Mapsurfer
> box any time.
>
> Brian
> TeamGreenDragon
>



Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Kirbert (PalmK@nettally.com) | Date: 2007-08-13 02:53:24 UTC-04:00
CompassPoints wrote:

> I tend to write my clues exact to every detail. My husband hates
> this! His theory is you should say "go to X town. Ask a local person
> where the X is. Look around." lol. He loves involving the locals,
> whether they want to be or not.

I had someone write to me once telling me that they couldn't figure
out how they were supposed to find my box without asking the locals.
I replied that you are supposed to ask the locals. Apparently this
boxer had somehow come to believe you weren't supposed to talk to
anyone when hunting a box.

> However, he also is in this for the hike and picking up trash as we
> go. He humors us when we stop for a few moments for the box.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tell him you're gonna go for a hike, no
letterboxes involved, and see what he says.

-- Kirbert

Re: Concise Directions

From: mizscarlet731 (mizscarlet731@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-08-13 10:20:06 UTC
---Canine or molar?

In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Randy Hall wrote
>
>
> Be all that as it may, don't people see the beauty in the
> semiotics of letterbox clues? Here you have a platonic,
> real location, with zero information loss at the time and
> place of planting. Then, thru the map of the writer and
> time decay from time of planting 'til time of reading,
> you have three points of information loss (the time decay,
> the writer's map, and the role of the reader against that
> map). IMHO, all art in our world, whether it be music,
> poetry, whatever, is what it is because of the dissonance of
> information loss between the concept, artist, and artee (for
> lack of a better word), and isn't that "Ah!" when we connect
> with the artist's perception of the platonic concept really
> cool? (that is, clearing away the grime of this dissonance;
> what Jim Morrision, or was it Huxley, called "The Doors or
> Perception"). That "oh, I get it" feeling. I'm in this,
> for that. People who aren't will find this post quite bizarre,
> and I respect that opinion, just don't flame me for mine --
> agree to disagree.
>
> Cheers
> Randy
>



Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Suzanne Coe (wilmcoe@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-08-13 05:17:54 UTC-07:00
Oh! OH! Don't get me started. Six separate trips, three times within 30 paces of the danged thing, checking every possible combination of toothy rock & tree.... And then the Vulture paces it off for the first time & walks RIGHT TO IT. Augh!

But that is a perfect example. Nothing wrong with the CLUES there (plenty of "aha!" moments along the trail). Didn't need any more specificity, just the right perspective. And longer legs. =)

Sheba

mizscarlet731 wrote:
---Canine or molar?

In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Randy Hall wrote
>
>
> Be all that as it may, don't people see the beauty in the
> semiotics of letterbox clues? Here you have a platonic,
> real location, with zero information loss at the time and
> place of planting. Then, thru the map of the writer and
> time decay from time of planting 'til time of reading,
> you have three points of information loss (the time decay,
> the writer's map, and the role of the reader against that
> map). IMHO, all art in our world, whether it be music,
> poetry, whatever, is what it is because of the dissonance of
> information loss between the concept, artist, and artee (for
> lack of a better word), and isn't that "Ah!" when we connect
> with the artist's perception of the platonic concept really
> cool? (that is, clearing away the grime of this dissonance;
> what Jim Morrision, or was it Huxley, called "The Doors or
> Perception"). That "oh, I get it" feeling. I'm in this,
> for that. People who aren't will find this post quite bizarre,
> and I respect that opinion, just don't flame me for mine --
> agree to disagree.
>
> Cheers
> Randy
>





Yahoo! Groups Links






---------------------------------
Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Rachel Henry (remcat@comcast.net) | Date: 2007-08-13 09:37:54 UTC-04:00
My feeling is, clues can be as vague as you like -- but what they *DO* say should be accurate. By this I mean, if the bearing is west, don't say north in the clues! (This has happened to me ....) I always read through the entire clue before setting out, to get a feel for whether or not a particular trek is achievable for me and my crew.

Also, count me among those who appreciate environmental warnings, like mosquitos, poison ivy, and mud. One in particular I liked was a warning that the falls were beautiful, but unfenced with a long drop into the river -- I made sure to keep my kids at heel. ;)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [LbNA] Concise Directions

From: Nathan Brown (Cyclonic07@aol.com) | Date: 2007-08-13 14:17:12 UTC-04:00
Sure, some clues could be written better and they can sometimes be
confusing, but I think that is one of the things that really makes the
adventure. It is part of the human element in letterboxing, clues can
have mistakes, send you in wrong directions, weather they mean to or
not, and the joy is in figuring them out and finding the box.

I do not fret over not finding that treasure, it has usually been a good
day out and that is what really matters.

--
Nathan Brown

AKA Cyclonic
Penncoasters.com

The Insensitivity rolls on...

I'm in shape; round is a shape.



Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Kirbert (PalmK@nettally.com) | Date: 2007-08-13 14:44:03 UTC-04:00
Rachel Henry wrote:

> My feeling is, clues can be as vague as you like -- but what they *DO*
> say should be accurate. By this I mean, if the bearing is west, don't
> say north in the clues! (This has happened to me ....)

Well, unless there's a deliberate thing going on. I've followed
clues where everything was backwards, left is right, up is down,
etc., etc. But that was clear and deliberate. It's the ones that
are just generally messed up that are frustrating.

I found one box once -- after lots and lots of hunting -- in which
the clue was a drawing showing three things at three different
compass headings from the hiding location. You had to find the spot
where those three things were in the right direction. Problem was,
two headings were correct and the third was way off, like 20 degrees
or more. That gets really confusing, because the fact of the matter
is you mathematically only need two headings to find a location
(where the two lines cross on a map) but one of the other two was a
broad landmark, there were many places you could be and still be at
the right heading, and NONE of them corresponded with that third,
incorrect heading! All of which meant you had to pick two of the
three headings, ignore the third, and then search and search and
search. If that didn't work, pick a different two and repeat.

> Also, count me among those who appreciate environmental warnings, like
> mosquitos, poison ivy, and mud.

OK, here's a warning for you: Here in Florida, watch out for poison
ivy on everything other than urban hides. Watch out for banana
spider webs whenever you're in the wilderness (they're harmless, but
still icky.) Mosquito repellant is a good idea for the warmer
months, although the mosquitos aren't really too bad in FL except in
the Everglades area. You don't have to worry much about mud here.
Beware of heat and sun issues, though; carry plenty of water and use
sunscreen at all times.

Fact is, I'd have to repeat all that on just about every outdoor
hide. It's not worth it, these things should be known to anyone
outdoors in Florida.

-- Kirbert

Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: tony pecchia (anthony.pecchia@cox.net) | Date: 2007-08-13 17:08:05 UTC-04:00
Reminds me of a LB adventure we had several months ago. I was looking at clues for a mystery box and had deduced it was in the lounge of a hotel.

Now, this hotel was a bit on the upscale side, and we walk in with casual clothes. We saw that the lounge was in the hotel restaurant, the EMPTY restaurant, but for a few employees.

So we're thinking, now what? We can't just walk in and start searching, and without complete assurance that we were in the right place it seemed odd to describe to a hotel employee the whole activity and how we wanted to look around.

While weighing our options, we were approached by one of the hotel managers. Apparently four people standing outside a restaurant draws attention.

He asked, "Can I help you?" So I figured, might as well. I said, "Ok, this is going to sound strange. Have you ever heard of letterboxing?"

He then replied, "I know why you're here, and I know exactly what you're looking for." The LB was placed by an employee and he knew about it so he let us go in and do our thing.

Tony

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [LbNA] Concise Directions

From: (Stellabaker123@aol.com) | Date: 2007-08-13 17:45:23 UTC-04:00
I know how you feel.? It has happened to me.? That is why I am always ?very happy when I fine a letterbox and in good condition.? Anyway, the walk or hike is a plus.? Finding new places too is great.? I go with my daughters or grandkids?and that's always a good time to talk and get away from the TV.

STAR:W+S=DRR
?----Original Message-----
From: Rusty Judd
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 8:30 am
Subject: [LbNA] Concise Directions






Do any of you letterbox folks feel this way at times -- I know we do --- I'd
like to ask that when you hide a letterbox, your clues on finding it are as
clear as possible. YOU know where it is; WE don't. When you say its the
tree that looks like an aardvark 50 paces to the left of the big rock ----
well maybe the tree doesn't look like an aardvark to me and in a woodsy
setting there are 500000000000 rocks.

I cant tell you how many we have gone to find following clues like walk up
the road til you find a big tree with a branch that hangs low.
In nature preserves and parks there are a ton of trees with branches that
hang low.

Also, if you plant a box in the spring be aware that by august the weeds and
vines will grow and make it more difficult to find ---- if not impossible if
you have to cut thru vines and poison ivy etc to get to it,

Remember too that naturally occurring landmarks like trees or stumps or
whatever can be cut down or moved or blown over in storms ----- the tree or
log that may be lying across the stream in Nov may no longer be there next
April or May. The tree that looked like an aardvark may have blown over and
now looks like a dead hippo on the ground.

We really enjoy taking a nice sunny Saturday afternoon to get out and search
for these but many times our adventurous outing just turns to frustration
because someone has written "walk down the road til you find a stone wall
and the box is on the left of the stone wall" when it is actually on the
right. Across from the big white and yellow house -- when it actuality it
was not across from it but a half mile down the road and around a corner.
(Two clues from a recent letter box with details changed a bit to not point
to anyone specific)

I know the fun of letterboxing is the hunt but when it gets frustrating
because the clues are vague or just wrong it really does tend to put a
damper on the fun.

The Sleeping Puppies




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [LbNA] Concise Directions

From: (dragonfly@norwoodlight.com) | Date: 2007-08-13 19:03:27 UTC-04:00
Here is a suggestion, if you want your clues to be perfect
and clear and concise and straightforward and to the
point, then write them yourself and plant more boxes. You
seem to have a long list of qualifications for what is or
isn't acceptable for clues

"Remember too that naturally occurring landmarks like
>trees or stumps or
>whatever can be cut down or moved or blown over in storms "

So are you suggesting not using any types of trees in the
clues because they might cut cut down at some point in
time? Should I not plant in spring because there may not
be the amount of growth that might perhaps hinder your
search in august? should i not plant in september because
there might be snow in winter? i am sorry but you sound
absurd to me. they are called clues for a reason, they are
clues, or hints, not detailed step by step instructions.
and if a planter chooses to be creative in their
descriptions saying a tree looks like an aardvark, that is
their perrogative. they spent the time to carve the stamp,
possibly make the logbook, hide the box and write the
clues, if they aren't to your liking, don't search for the
box.

Dragonfly

RE: [LbNA] Concise Directions

From: xxxxxxxx (BrighidFarm@comcast.net) | Date: 2007-08-13 18:30:54 UTC-05:00


-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
dragonfly@norwoodlight.com
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 6:03 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Concise Directions



So are you suggesting not using any types of trees in the
clues because they might cut cut down at some point in
time? Should I not plant in spring because there may not
be the amount of growth that might perhaps hinder your
search in august?



###################

I had to laugh at this because I have one box where I specifically wrote it
in the clues that the box will be a difficult find when the leaves are on
the shrubberies. And twice now this summer, I've gotten an email saying how
dare I put out a box that's too hard to find in the summer. So even when
the clues *do* try to be helpful, there are people who aren't going to read
them.

Oh well.

~~ Mosey ~~




Re: [LbNA] Concise Directions

From: Kirbert (PalmK@nettally.com) | Date: 2007-08-13 19:40:27 UTC-04:00
Nathan Brown wrote:

> Sure, some clues could be written better and they can sometimes be
> confusing, but I think that is one of the things that really makes the
> adventure. It is part of the human element in letterboxing, clues can
> have mistakes, send you in wrong directions, weather they mean to or
> not, and the joy is in figuring them out and finding the box.

I sometimes ponder over whether I should tell the owner about the
errors. For one thing, if he makes the corrections, then the next
guy will have an easier time finding it than I did. OTOH, with the
errors it may be considerably more difficult to find than the owner
intended.

I ponder some more when there are a LOT of mistakes in the clues.
Misspellings and bad grammar as well as functional problems,
misdirections and omissions. If I listed all the errors it'd sound
like I'm berating the owner for a lousy job -- when all I'm trying to
do is help him proofread his clues. Proofreading your own writing
never works, we all know that. Anyhow, in those cases I usually just
pick one error to tell them about, perhaps the one that caused the
most confusion. That way maybe the clues will gradually get cleaned
up.

-- Kirbert

[LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: connfederate (connfederate@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-08-14 01:29:23 UTC
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Kirbert" wrote:
>
> OK, here's a warning for you: Here in Florida, watch out for
poison
> ivy on everything other than urban hides. Watch out for banana
> spider webs whenever you're in the wilderness (they're harmless,
but
> still icky.) Mosquito repellant is a good idea for the warmer
> months, although the mosquitos aren't really too bad in FL except
in
> the Everglades area. You don't have to worry much about mud here.
> Beware of heat and sun issues, though; carry plenty of water and
use
> sunscreen at all times.
>
> Fact is, I'd have to repeat all that on just about every outdoor
> hide. It's not worth it, these things should be known to anyone
> outdoors in Florida.
>
> -- Kirbert
>

Yeah but I'm from CT. If I were to hunt those 'boxes I'd likely
appreciate the head's-up. So then, by omission, 'gators aren't a
problem are they? ;)

Connfederate


Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Suzanne Coe (wilmcoe@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-08-13 20:20:11 UTC-07:00
No, in Florida they hide the boxes IN gators. Keeps the muggles away. =)

Sheba

connfederate wrote:
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Kirbert"
wrote:
>
> OK, here's a warning for you: Here in Florida, watch out for
poison
> ivy on everything other than urban hides. Watch out for banana
> spider webs whenever you're in the wilderness (they're harmless,
but
> still icky.) Mosquito repellant is a good idea for the warmer
> months, although the mosquitos aren't really too bad in FL except
in
> the Everglades area. You don't have to worry much about mud here.
> Beware of heat and sun issues, though; carry plenty of water and
use
> sunscreen at all times.
>
> Fact is, I'd have to repeat all that on just about every outdoor
> hide. It's not worth it, these things should be known to anyone
> outdoors in Florida.
>
> -- Kirbert
>

Yeah but I'm from CT. If I were to hunt those 'boxes I'd likely
appreciate the head's-up. So then, by omission, 'gators aren't a
problem are they? ;)

Connfederate



---------------------------------
Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Kirbert (PalmK@nettally.com) | Date: 2007-08-14 04:22:12 UTC-04:00
connfederate wrote:

> Yeah but I'm from CT. If I were to hunt those 'boxes I'd likely
> appreciate the head's-up.

What is needed is a general set of head's-ups for a region that
people can check when they go on a trip. Perhaps that suggestion
should be made to AQ. That Wiki they've got would be a good way to
do it.

> So then, by omission, 'gators aren't a
> problem are they? ;)

Gators are no problem at all.

-- Kirbert

Re: Concise Directions

From: agentkandel (agentkandel@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-08-14 12:24:55 UTC
Hi,

Just wanted you all to consider the following: I make letterboxing
easy for elderly people when I visit them at retirement/assisted
living centers. it is kind of like an "Easter Egg Hunt" for them,
and they enjoyed the challenge of finding "The Treasure" within 30
minutes. I have also used this technique with young children, and at
the same time, teach the young ones how to read a compass...I just
know that the young, as well as older people love this challenge of
discovery....this activity gets both groups of people the opportunity
to get outside and enjoy a rather new experience. I would appreciate
your comments....
agentkandel

>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:letterbox-
usa@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of bret bridwell
> Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 10:37 AM
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions
>
>
>
>
> i dont want to have to start a flame war, but come on. why dont we
> just wait by the tree and hand you the letterbox so you can just
> drive by without having to get out of your car???
> this is what make letterboxing what it is. having to search for our
> little gems that were created for us to find.
> if you dont like having to search for the creations of others, then
> join the postal groups and wait for them to come to you in the
> mail..i dont have anything against postals. i have done many in the
> past. and they are letterboxes to me too.
>
> it just irks me when someone complains about someone elses hard
work
> and effort to create something special for us who are serious about
> this sport/hobby/addiction. ya, we all dont find every letterbox
that
> is hidden. and yes sometimes nature does tend to get in the way
with
> growing things around our hiding spots. but thats what makes it
> interesting.
> and yes, sometimes the clues are off. so send the planter a message
> and ask if they can help with the clues. or try from a different
> direction or come back another day and try again with a fresh
> perspective..
> but to want the directions to lead you right to the exact spot
> without any sense of searching/finding??? thats not letterboxing to
> me. the thrill of the hunt/search is what does it for me. and the
> little gem that was planted for me to find is the added reward.
such
> talent that we all have. carving images out of rubber. hiding
plastic
> boxes in the bushes that sometimes dont ever get discovered. and
> taking me to wondeful sights that i might never have discovered
> before.
> thats my rant for the day. thanx for listening.
> later,dragonrider
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@
> yahoogroups.com, Rusty Judd wrote:
> >
> > Do any of you letterbox folks feel this way at times -- I know we
> do --- I'd
> > like to ask that when you hide a letterbox, your clues on finding
> it are as
> > clear as possible. YOU know where it is; WE don't. When you say
> its the
> > tree that looks like an aardvark 50 paces to the left of the big
> rock ----
> > well maybe the tree doesn't look like an aardvark to me and in a
> woodsy
> > setting there are 500000000000 rocks.
> >
> > I cant tell you how many we have gone to find following clues
> like walk up
> > the road til you find a big tree with a branch that hangs low.
> > In nature preserves and parks there are a ton of trees with
> branches that
> > hang low.
> >
> > Also, if you plant a box in the spring be aware that by august
the
> weeds and
> > vines will grow and make it more difficult to find ---- if not
> impossible if
> > you have to cut thru vines and poison ivy etc to get to it,
> >
> > Remember too that naturally occurring landmarks like trees or
> stumps or
> > whatever can be cut down or moved or blown over in storms -----
the
> tree or
> > log that may be lying across the stream in Nov may no longer be
> there next
> > April or May. The tree that looked like an aardvark may have
blown
> over and
> > now looks like a dead hippo on the ground.
> >
> > We really enjoy taking a nice sunny Saturday afternoon to get out
> and search
> > for these but many times our adventurous outing just turns to
> frustration
> > because someone has written "walk down the road til you find a
> stone wall
> > and the box is on the left of the stone wall" when it is actually
> on the
> > right. Across from the big white and yellow house -- when it
> actuality it
> > was not across from it but a half mile down the road and around a
> corner.
> > (Two clues from a recent letter box with details changed a bit to
> not point
> > to anyone specific)
> >
> > I know the fun of letterboxing is the hunt but when it gets
> frustrating
> > because the clues are vague or just wrong it really does tend to
> put a
> > damper on the fun.
> >
> > The Sleeping Puppies
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



Re: [LbNA] Concise Directions

From: ontario_cacher (ontario_cacher@yahoo.ca) | Date: 2007-08-14 15:26:47 UTC
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, wrote:
>
> Here is a suggestion, if you want your clues to be perfect
> and clear and concise and straightforward and to the
> point, then write them yourself and plant more boxes. You
> seem to have a long list of qualifications for what is or
> isn't acceptable for clues
>
> >>"Remember too that naturally occurring landmarks like
> >>trees or stumps or
> >>whatever can be cut down or moved or blown over in storms "
>
> So are you suggesting not using any types of trees in the
> clues because they might cut cut down at some point in
> time? Should I not plant in spring because there may not
> be the amount of growth that might perhaps hinder your
> search in august? should i not plant in september because
> there might be snow in winter?

I don't think that's what is being suggested. I take the suggestion more
along the lines that hiders should check their boxes seasonally and
make notes in their clues when landmarks change due to natural and
man-made changes to the environment.

For example: I planted a box in the early Spring and noted that a
landmark is visible from the road. I got an email in June that the
landmark isn't easily visible from the road due to heavy foliage. I
hadn't considered leaf growth when I planted the box. So I updated my
clues and added "in the summer months you'll have to peer through the
foliage to see it from the road." Takes only a couple of minutes to add
the sentence to the clues and it makes the clues more accurate.

Lone R




Re: Concise Directions

From: norastaa (windytrail2000@yahoo.ca) | Date: 2007-08-14 21:41:29 UTC
I love the challenge of vague directions, cryptic clues etc when I'm on
my home turf. When I am 1000 miles from home with no internet access
and I need to find the park with a plaque for a great man died 100
years ago (in a city with 102 parks) I skip those.

However if you get me to the starting gate then you can drive me nuts
with stuff like "behind the tall tree near the gray rock". For some
of my mystery boxes I invite non locals to email me for more precise
directions to the starting point. On the rare day a visitor is heading
my way I'm ready to roll out the red carpet.
Nor PhD


Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Jo Kandel (agentkandel@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-08-15 08:00:27 UTC-07:00
Hi All,

O.K...no offense taken as far as replies to my original post below. As far as senior adults, and young children...I will in the future, refer to our activities as "scavenger hunts",,,,,,I honestely did not mean to intrude your letterboxing space. I just thought that is was fun to let the both young, as well as old people to engage in finding the letterboxing...but I respect your wishes, and will send a request to web domain to have my email address removed from this website.

agentkandel wrote:
Hi,

Just wanted you all to consider the following: I make letterboxing
easy for elderly people when I visit them at retirement/assisted
living centers. it is kind of like an "Easter Egg Hunt" for them,
and they enjoyed the challenge of finding "The Treasure" within 30
minutes. I have also used this technique with young children, and at
the same time, teach the young ones how to read a compass...I just
know that the young, as well as older people love this challenge of
discovery....this activity gets both groups of people the opportunity
to get outside and enjoy a rather new experience. I would appreciate
your comments....
agentkandel

>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:letterbox-
usa@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of bret bridwell
> Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 10:37 AM
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions
>
>
>
>
> i dont want to have to start a flame war, but come on. why dont we
> just wait by the tree and hand you the letterbox so you can just
> drive by without having to get out of your car???
> this is what make letterboxing what it is. having to search for our
> little gems that were created for us to find.
> if you dont like having to search for the creations of others, then
> join the postal groups and wait for them to come to you in the
> mail..i dont have anything against postals. i have done many in the
> past. and they are letterboxes to me too.
>
> it just irks me when someone complains about someone elses hard
work
> and effort to create something special for us who are serious about
> this sport/hobby/addiction. ya, we all dont find every letterbox
that
> is hidden. and yes sometimes nature does tend to get in the way
with
> growing things around our hiding spots. but thats what makes it
> interesting.
> and yes, sometimes the clues are off. so send the planter a message
> and ask if they can help with the clues. or try from a different
> direction or come back another day and try again with a fresh
> perspective..
> but to want the directions to lead you right to the exact spot
> without any sense of searching/finding??? thats not letterboxing to
> me. the thrill of the hunt/search is what does it for me. and the
> little gem that was planted for me to find is the added reward.
such
> talent that we all have. carving images out of rubber. hiding
plastic
> boxes in the bushes that sometimes dont ever get discovered. and
> taking me to wondeful sights that i might never have discovered
> before.
> thats my rant for the day. thanx for listening.
> later,dragonrider
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@
> yahoogroups.com, Rusty Judd wrote:
> >
> > Do any of you letterbox folks feel this way at times -- I know we
> do --- I'd
> > like to ask that when you hide a letterbox, your clues on finding
> it are as
> > clear as possible. YOU know where it is; WE don't. When you say
> its the
> > tree that looks like an aardvark 50 paces to the left of the big
> rock ----
> > well maybe the tree doesn't look like an aardvark to me and in a
> woodsy
> > setting there are 500000000000 rocks.
> >
> > I cant tell you how many we have gone to find following clues
> like walk up
> > the road til you find a big tree with a branch that hangs low.
> > In nature preserves and parks there are a ton of trees with
> branches that
> > hang low.
> >
> > Also, if you plant a box in the spring be aware that by august
the
> weeds and
> > vines will grow and make it more difficult to find ---- if not
> impossible if
> > you have to cut thru vines and poison ivy etc to get to it,
> >
> > Remember too that naturally occurring landmarks like trees or
> stumps or
> > whatever can be cut down or moved or blown over in storms -----
the
> tree or
> > log that may be lying across the stream in Nov may no longer be
> there next
> > April or May. The tree that looked like an aardvark may have
blown
> over and
> > now looks like a dead hippo on the ground.
> >
> > We really enjoy taking a nice sunny Saturday afternoon to get out
> and search
> > for these but many times our adventurous outing just turns to
> frustration
> > because someone has written "walk down the road til you find a
> stone wall
> > and the box is on the left of the stone wall" when it is actually
> on the
> > right. Across from the big white and yellow house -- when it
> actuality it
> > was not across from it but a half mile down the road and around a
> corner.
> > (Two clues from a recent letter box with details changed a bit to
> not point
> > to anyone specific)
> >
> > I know the fun of letterboxing is the hunt but when it gets
> frustrating
> > because the clues are vague or just wrong it really does tend to
> put a
> > damper on the fun.
> >
> > The Sleeping Puppies
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>






---------------------------------
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: zess devine (zess.devine@gmail.com) | Date: 2007-08-15 15:19:50 UTC-04:00
Hi Jo,

Huh? I may not have been following the thread closely enough--perhaps
I should go back and read it before writing this--but I don't recall
reading ANY response that criticized you for what you are doing!! If
you are referring to dragonrider's response, which is quoted in this
email (which was quite enthusiastic), I believe that was in response
to The Sleeping Puppies email--as were the rest (at least to my
reading).

With all of these topics that get peoples' ires up, and cause a flurry
of posts that argue one side or the other about "what is
letterboxing?" or "what is the right way to do it?," ultimately somone
posts a comment that "letterboxing is whatever you want it to
be--different strokes for different folks--just respect the
box/privacy/land and otherwise do it in a way that makes you happy."
Then several people chime in to say, "Yes, that's right exactly." Then
the "flame war" ends.

And so it is, or would be if the "flame" were about your comments. In
fact, I don't even see anything in your original email that would
raise anybody's ire (although, granted, I don't always "get" the
opinions of everyone). On the contrary, I think, and probably many
more in addition to me, that what you are doing is fantastic! Don't
stop!! These are fabulous activities for children & the elderly, and I
think it's great that you are doing this. If you hear any nay-sayers,
disregard them. Letterboxing is what you make it. Just respect the
box/privacy/land.

~zess~

On 8/15/07, Jo Kandel wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> O.K...no offense taken as far as replies to my original post below. As far
> as senior adults, and young children...I will in the future, refer to our
> activities as "scavenger hunts",,,,,,I honestely did not mean to intrude
> your letterboxing space. I just thought that is was fun to let the both
> young, as well as old people to engage in finding the letterboxing...but I
> respect your wishes, and will send a request to web domain to have my email
> address removed from this website.
>
> agentkandel wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Just wanted you all to consider the following: I make letterboxing
> easy for elderly people when I visit them at retirement/assisted
> living centers. it is kind of like an "Easter Egg Hunt" for them,
> and they enjoyed the challenge of finding "The Treasure" within 30
> minutes. I have also used this technique with young children, and at
> the same time, teach the young ones how to read a compass...I just
> know that the young, as well as older people love this challenge of
> discovery....this activity gets both groups of people the opportunity
> to get outside and enjoy a rather new experience. I would appreciate
> your comments....
> agentkandel
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:letterbox-
> usa@yahoogroups.com]
> > On Behalf Of bret bridwell
> > Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 10:37 AM
> > To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > i dont want to have to start a flame war, but come on. why dont we
> > just wait by the tree and hand you the letterbox so you can just
> > drive by without having to get out of your car???
> > this is what make letterboxing what it is. having to search for our
> > little gems that were created for us to find.
> > if you dont like having to search for the creations of others, then
> > join the postal groups and wait for them to come to you in the
> > mail..i dont have anything against postals. i have done many in the
> > past. and they are letterboxes to me too.
> >
> > it just irks me when someone complains about someone elses hard
> work
> > and effort to create something special for us who are serious about
> > this sport/hobby/addiction. ya, we all dont find every letterbox
> that
> > is hidden. and yes sometimes nature does tend to get in the way
> with
> > growing things around our hiding spots. but thats what makes it
> > interesting.
> > and yes, sometimes the clues are off. so send the planter a message
> > and ask if they can help with the clues. or try from a different
> > direction or come back another day and try again with a fresh
> > perspective..
> > but to want the directions to lead you right to the exact spot
> > without any sense of searching/finding??? thats not letterboxing to
> > me. the thrill of the hunt/search is what does it for me. and the
> > little gem that was planted for me to find is the added reward.
> such
> > talent that we all have. carving images out of rubber. hiding
> plastic
> > boxes in the bushes that sometimes dont ever get discovered. and
> > taking me to wondeful sights that i might never have discovered
> > before.
> > thats my rant for the day. thanx for listening.
> > later,dragonrider
> >
> > --- In letterbox-usa@
> > yahoogroups.com, Rusty Judd wrote:
> > >
> > > Do any of you letterbox folks feel this way at times -- I know we
> > do --- I'd
> > > like to ask that when you hide a letterbox, your clues on finding
> > it are as
> > > clear as possible. YOU know where it is; WE don't. When you say
> > its the
> > > tree that looks like an aardvark 50 paces to the left of the big
> > rock ----
> > > well maybe the tree doesn't look like an aardvark to me and in a
> > woodsy
> > > setting there are 500000000000 rocks.
> > >
> > > I cant tell you how many we have gone to find following clues
> > like walk up
> > > the road til you find a big tree with a branch that hangs low.
> > > In nature preserves and parks there are a ton of trees with
> > branches that
> > > hang low.
> > >
> > > Also, if you plant a box in the spring be aware that by august
> the
> > weeds and
> > > vines will grow and make it more difficult to find ---- if not
> > impossible if
> > > you have to cut thru vines and poison ivy etc to get to it,
> > >
> > > Remember too that naturally occurring landmarks like trees or
> > stumps or
> > > whatever can be cut down or moved or blown over in storms -----
> the
> > tree or
> > > log that may be lying across the stream in Nov may no longer be
> > there next
> > > April or May. The tree that looked like an aardvark may have
> blown
> > over and
> > > now looks like a dead hippo on the ground.
> > >
> > > We really enjoy taking a nice sunny Saturday afternoon to get out
> > and search
> > > for these but many times our adventurous outing just turns to
> > frustration
> > > because someone has written "walk down the road til you find a
> > stone wall
> > > and the box is on the left of the stone wall" when it is actually
> > on the
> > > right. Across from the big white and yellow house -- when it
> > actuality it
> > > was not across from it but a half mile down the road and around a
> > corner.
> > > (Two clues from a recent letter box with details changed a bit to
> > not point
> > > to anyone specific)
> > >
> > > I know the fun of letterboxing is the hunt but when it gets
> > frustrating
> > > because the clues are vague or just wrong it really does tend to
> > put a
> > > damper on the fun.
> > >
> > > The Sleeping Puppies
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
> ---------------------------------
> Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel
> and lay it on us.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

RE: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: RIFamily (RIFamily@cox.net) | Date: 2007-08-15 15:32:02 UTC-04:00
Zess, I was confused too.... I hadn't read anything at all against what Jo
said. Hopefully she's not gone yet and will rethink what she thinks she
read :)

RIFamily


--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.11.10/943 - Release Date: 8/8/2007
5:38 PM


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


[LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: dixiedarlin_snakedancer (dixiedarlin_snakedancer@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-08-15 19:58:11 UTC
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Rachel Henry" wrote:
>
> My feeling is, clues can be as vague as you like -- but what they
*DO* say should be accurate.

i agree about the accuracy
and as far as
clues vs. directions

if i am making this a child friendly series
then i have "directions"
ie: Shop Till You Drop on Fortune Blvd

if i am making this the kind of LB i like to find
with a bit of challenge to it
then i have poetry formatted "clues"
with some figuring out involved
ie: Dune Flyer

both have their place
dixie darlin'




RE: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Kirbert (PalmK@nettally.com) | Date: 2007-08-15 16:26:08 UTC-04:00
RIFamily wrote:

> Zess, I was confused too.... I hadn't read anything at all against
> what Jo said.

Yeah, me either. I presume she got flamed offlist, although I really
don't know what for.

-- Kirbert

Re: Concise Directions

From: gerania93 (gerania93@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-08-15 22:49:34 UTC
Incisor or bicuspid?

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "mizscarlet731"
wrote:
>
> ---Canine or molar?
>
> In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Randy Hall wrote
> >
> >
> > Be all that as it may, don't people see the beauty in the
> > semiotics of letterbox clues? Here you have a platonic,
> > real location, with zero information loss at the time and
> > place of planting. Then, thru the map of the writer and
> > time decay from time of planting 'til time of reading,
> > you have three points of information loss (the time decay,
> > the writer's map, and the role of the reader against that
> > map). IMHO, all art in our world, whether it be music,
> > poetry, whatever, is what it is because of the dissonance of
> > information loss between the concept, artist, and artee (for
> > lack of a better word), and isn't that "Ah!" when we connect
> > with the artist's perception of the platonic concept really
> > cool? (that is, clearing away the grime of this dissonance;
> > what Jim Morrision, or was it Huxley, called "The Doors or
> > Perception"). That "oh, I get it" feeling. I'm in this,
> > for that. People who aren't will find this post quite bizarre,
> > and I respect that opinion, just don't flame me for mine --
> > agree to disagree.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Randy
> >
>



Re: Concise Directions

From: Lightnin Bug (rpboehme@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-08-16 00:19:21 UTC
Most likely, a wisdom tooth.

LB

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "gerania93"
wrote:
>
> Incisor or bicuspid?
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "mizscarlet731"
> wrote:
> >
> > ---Canine or molar?
> >
> > In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Randy Hall wrote
> > >
> > >
> > > Be all that as it may, don't people see the beauty in the
> > > semiotics of letterbox clues? Here you have a platonic,
> > > real location, with zero information loss at the time and
> > > place of planting. Then, thru the map of the writer and
> > > time decay from time of planting 'til time of reading,
> > > you have three points of information loss (the time decay,
> > > the writer's map, and the role of the reader against that
> > > map). IMHO, all art in our world, whether it be music,
> > > poetry, whatever, is what it is because of the dissonance of
> > > information loss between the concept, artist, and artee (for
> > > lack of a better word), and isn't that "Ah!" when we connect
> > > with the artist's perception of the platonic concept really
> > > cool? (that is, clearing away the grime of this dissonance;
> > > what Jim Morrision, or was it Huxley, called "The Doors or
> > > Perception"). That "oh, I get it" feeling. I'm in this,
> > > for that. People who aren't will find this post quite bizarre,
> > > and I respect that opinion, just don't flame me for mine --
> > > agree to disagree.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Randy
> > >
> >
>



Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Suzanne Coe (wilmcoe@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-08-15 19:20:16 UTC-07:00
With my luck, one that had been removed.

Lightnin Bug wrote: Most likely, a wisdom tooth.

LB

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "gerania93"
wrote:
>
> Incisor or bicuspid?
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "mizscarlet731"
> wrote:
> >
> > ---Canine or molar?
> >
> > In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Randy Hall wrote
> > >
> > >
> > > Be all that as it may, don't people see the beauty in the
> > > semiotics of letterbox clues? Here you have a platonic,
> > > real location, with zero information loss at the time and
> > > place of planting. Then, thru the map of the writer and
> > > time decay from time of planting 'til time of reading,
> > > you have three points of information loss (the time decay,
> > > the writer's map, and the role of the reader against that
> > > map). IMHO, all art in our world, whether it be music,
> > > poetry, whatever, is what it is because of the dissonance of
> > > information loss between the concept, artist, and artee (for
> > > lack of a better word), and isn't that "Ah!" when we connect
> > > with the artist's perception of the platonic concept really
> > > cool? (that is, clearing away the grime of this dissonance;
> > > what Jim Morrision, or was it Huxley, called "The Doors or
> > > Perception"). That "oh, I get it" feeling. I'm in this,
> > > for that. People who aren't will find this post quite bizarre,
> > > and I respect that opinion, just don't flame me for mine --
> > > agree to disagree.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Randy
> > >
> >
>





Yahoo! Groups Links






---------------------------------
Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


RE: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Gail Metzger (queenofswords110@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-08-23 20:13:26 UTC-07:00
Well said, Mark! It's not for everyone else to make life easier. It's the challenge that keeps me going! The more difficult and well thought out the clues, the better I like it. The mental challenge is as important as the physical one in this hobby!

I so appreciate well written intentional obfuscation!!

Mark Pepe wrote: I agree with Dragonrider. No one ever said this is easy.

If you get discouraged, maybe this hobby isn't for you.

Different placers use different clue techniques - whether on purpose or not.

We should be thankful for their efforts.

Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of bret bridwell
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 10:37 AM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

i dont want to have to start a flame war, but come on. why dont we
just wait by the tree and hand you the letterbox so you can just
drive by without having to get out of your car???
this is what make letterboxing what it is. having to search for our
little gems that were created for us to find.
if you dont like having to search for the creations of others, then
join the postal groups and wait for them to come to you in the
mail..i dont have anything against postals. i have done many in the
past. and they are letterboxes to me too.

it just irks me when someone complains about someone elses hard work
and effort to create something special for us who are serious about
this sport/hobby/addiction. ya, we all dont find every letterbox that
is hidden. and yes sometimes nature does tend to get in the way with
growing things around our hiding spots. but thats what makes it
interesting.
and yes, sometimes the clues are off. so send the planter a message
and ask if they can help with the clues. or try from a different
direction or come back another day and try again with a fresh
perspective..
but to want the directions to lead you right to the exact spot
without any sense of searching/finding??? thats not letterboxing to
me. the thrill of the hunt/search is what does it for me. and the
little gem that was planted for me to find is the added reward. such
talent that we all have. carving images out of rubber. hiding plastic
boxes in the bushes that sometimes dont ever get discovered. and
taking me to wondeful sights that i might never have discovered
before.
thats my rant for the day. thanx for listening.
later,dragonrider

--- In letterbox-usa@
yahoogroups.com, Rusty Judd wrote:
>
> Do any of you letterbox folks feel this way at times -- I know we
do --- I'd
> like to ask that when you hide a letterbox, your clues on finding
it are as
> clear as possible. YOU know where it is; WE don't. When you say
its the
> tree that looks like an aardvark 50 paces to the left of the big
rock ----
> well maybe the tree doesn't look like an aardvark to me and in a
woodsy
> setting there are 500000000000 rocks.
>
> I cant tell you how many we have gone to find following clues
like walk up
> the road til you find a big tree with a branch that hangs low.
> In nature preserves and parks there are a ton of trees with
branches that
> hang low.
>
> Also, if you plant a box in the spring be aware that by august the
weeds and
> vines will grow and make it more difficult to find ---- if not
impossible if
> you have to cut thru vines and poison ivy etc to get to it,
>
> Remember too that naturally occurring landmarks like trees or
stumps or
> whatever can be cut down or moved or blown over in storms ----- the
tree or
> log that may be lying across the stream in Nov may no longer be
there next
> April or May. The tree that looked like an aardvark may have blown
over and
> now looks like a dead hippo on the ground.
>
> We really enjoy taking a nice sunny Saturday afternoon to get out
and search
> for these but many times our adventurous outing just turns to
frustration
> because someone has written "walk down the road til you find a
stone wall
> and the box is on the left of the stone wall" when it is actually
on the
> right. Across from the big white and yellow house -- when it
actuality it
> was not across from it but a half mile down the road and around a
corner.
> (Two clues from a recent letter box with details changed a bit to
not point
> to anyone specific)
>
> I know the fun of letterboxing is the hunt but when it gets
frustrating
> because the clues are vague or just wrong it really does tend to
put a
> damper on the fun.
>
> The Sleeping Puppies
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


[LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: beckgirl0012004 (imdurangogirl@aol.com) | Date: 2007-08-24 13:51:55 UTC
When placing a box out in the woods, how else would you give directions
if you're not making reference to large trees that look like ardvarks
or large boulders etc. Even if you're giving compass directions, you
still have to have a starting point. So outside of actually giving
coordinates to be found with a GPS system..........what is a leterboxer
to do??????? ~The Cats Meow~


Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Kirbert (PalmK@nettally.com) | Date: 2007-08-24 11:05:01 UTC-04:00
beckgirl0012004 wrote:

> When placing a box out in the woods, how else would you give
> directions if you're not making reference to large trees that look
> like ardvarks or large boulders etc. Even if you're giving compass
> directions, you still have to have a starting point. So outside of
> actually giving coordinates to be found with a GPS
> system..........what is a leterboxer to do???????

That's what I've been saying. Here in Florida, all the trees look
alike and there are no boulders. Even most letterboxers don't seem
to realize just how severely limited they are in possible hiding
places compared with geocaching. That's why I have now planted a
letterbox that requires a GPS to find, and hope that more people
follow suit.

-- Kirbert

Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Samuel Checker (spam.sc@gmail.com) | Date: 2007-08-24 14:17:01 UTC-04:00
"After you've passed the fourth 'gator, turn left at the large
rattlesnake..."

On 8/24/07, Kirbert wrote:
>
> beckgirl0012004 wrote:
>
> > When placing a box out in the woods, how else would you give
> > directions if you're not making reference to large trees that look
> > like ardvarks or large boulders etc. Even if you're giving compass
> > directions, you still have to have a starting point. So outside of
> > actually giving coordinates to be found with a GPS
> > system..........what is a leterboxer to do???????
>
> That's what I've been saying. Here in Florida, all the trees look
> alike and there are no boulders. Even most letterboxers don't seem
> to realize just how severely limited they are in possible hiding
> places compared with geocaching. That's why I have now planted a
> letterbox that requires a GPS to find, and hope that more people
> follow suit.
>
> -- Kirbert
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Kirbert (PalmK@nettally.com) | Date: 2007-08-24 15:22:59 UTC-04:00
Samuel Checker wrote:

> "After you've passed the fourth 'gator, turn left at the large
> rattlesnake..."

"After you've walked through 17 spider webs, turn left into the broad
patch of poison ivy..."

-- Kirbert

Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Gary & Elizabeth Anderson (garyliza@arkwest.com) | Date: 2007-08-24 14:44:59 UTC-05:00
Eh??? You have petrified gators and r'snakes down there??? ;-)



At 01:17 PM 8/24/2007, you wrote:
>"After you've passed the fourth 'gator, turn left at the large
>rattlesnake..."
>
>On 8/24/07, Kirbert wrote:
> >
> > beckgirl0012004 wrote:
> >
> > > When placing a box out in the woods, how else would you give
> > > directions if you're not making reference to large trees that look
> > > like ardvarks or large boulders etc. Even if you're giving compass
> > > directions, you still have to have a starting point. So outside of
> > > actually giving coordinates to be found with a GPS
> > > system..........what is a leterboxer to do???????
> >
> > That's what I've been saying. Here in Florida, all the trees look
> > alike and there are no boulders. Even most letterboxers don't seem
> > to realize just how severely limited they are in possible hiding
> > places compared with geocaching. That's why I have now planted a
> > letterbox that requires a GPS to find, and hope that more people
> > follow suit.
> >
> > -- Kirbert
> >
> >
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Concise Directions

From: mizscarlet731 (mizscarlet731@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-08-25 13:37:07 UTC


>. That's why I have now planted a
> letterbox that requires a GPS to find, and hope that more people
> follow suit.
>
> -- Kirbert
>
I hope they don't follow suit. I have boxed in FL and you are right it does present a different
set of challenges but I just don't follow your logic with the GPS, to me that just turns
letterboxing into geocaching.


Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Nathan Brown (Cyclonic07@aol.com) | Date: 2007-08-25 10:23:17 UTC-04:00
mizscarlet731 wrote:
>
>> . That's why I have now planted a
>> letterbox that requires a GPS to find, and hope that more people
>> follow suit.
>>
>> -- Kirbert
>>
>>
> I hope they don't follow suit. I have boxed in FL and you are right it does present a different
> set of challenges but I just don't follow your logic with the GPS, to me that just turns
> letterboxing into geocaching.
>


It is still different then geocaching, there is still a point to it. I
call it geoboxing.

--
Nathan Brown

AKA Cyclonic
Penncoasters.com

The Insensitivity rolls on...

Virginia may be for lovers, but Pennsylvania has Intercourse!



Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Kirbert (PalmK@nettally.com) | Date: 2007-08-25 12:55:11 UTC-04:00
mizscarlet731 wrote:

> I hope they don't follow suit. I have boxed in FL and you are right it
> does present a different set of challenges but I just don't follow
> your logic with the GPS, to me that just turns letterboxing into
> geocaching.

It doesn't turn letterboxing into geocaching until you start putting
junk in the letterboxes.

-- Kirbert

RE: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Jars Of Clay (jarsofclaylb@hotmail.com) | Date: 2007-08-25 20:10:39 UTC
that's called geo-cacheing and not everyone can afford a gps unit so why limit those who could find it? that seems like a tough requirement, why not the option of GPS or directions concise or not?


To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.comFrom: PalmK@nettally.comDate: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 11:05:01 -0400Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions




beckgirl0012004 wrote:> When placing a box out in the woods, how else would you give> directions if you're not making reference to large trees that look> like ardvarks or large boulders etc. Even if you're giving compass> directions, you still have to have a starting point. So outside of> actually giving coordinates to be found with a GPS> system..........what is a leterboxer to do???????That's what I've been saying. Here in Florida, all the trees look alike and there are no boulders. Even most letterboxers don't seem to realize just how severely limited they are in possible hiding places compared with geocaching. That's why I have now planted a letterbox that requires a GPS to find, and hope that more people follow suit.-- Kirbert






_________________________________________________________________
Messenger Caf open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served daily. Visit now.
http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_AugWLtagline

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


RE: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Jars Of Clay (jarsofclaylb@hotmail.com) | Date: 2007-08-25 20:12:24 UTC
LOL that's a good one, but again, what about those of us unfortunate enough to not have the means to have GPS? then what? we miss out on a box that could/would have been a great find?


To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.comFrom: Cyclonic07@aol.comDate: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 10:23:17 -0400Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions




mizscarlet731 wrote:> >> . That's why I have now planted a >> letterbox that requires a GPS to find, and hope that more people >> follow suit.>>>> -- Kirbert>>>> > I hope they don't follow suit. I have boxed in FL and you are right it does present a different > set of challenges but I just don't follow your logic with the GPS, to me that just turns > letterboxing into geocaching. > It is still different then geocaching, there is still a point to it. I call it geoboxing.-- Nathan BrownAKA CyclonicPenncoasters.comThe Insensitivity rolls on...Virginia may be for lovers, but Pennsylvania has Intercourse!






_________________________________________________________________
Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more.then map the best route!
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&ss=yp.bars~yp.pizza~yp.movie%20theater&cp=42.358996~-71.056691&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=950607&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: tony pecchia (anthony.pecchia@cox.net) | Date: 2007-08-25 18:00:39 UTC-04:00
A GPS can cost upwards of $200+ I think that's a big expense for some of us just to do LBing. Yes, a GPS can be used for more than LBing, but still.

Tony

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Concise Directions

From: Baker (knightbaker63@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-08-25 22:57:09 UTC
I think the thing to remember is that the GPS is a tool that can belong
in the letterboxers arsinal. If you use a geocache as part or a
majority of the clue it is still letterboxing. Remeber the only thing
that separates geocahing from letterboxing is the stamp. That is the
only real differece.

You know you don't need a gps to find something in the woods. All you
need is a map and compass. I have found two geocaches without a gps.

Baker
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "mizscarlet731"
wrote:

> I hope they don't follow suit. I have boxed in FL and you are right
it does present a different
> set of challenges but I just don't follow your logic with the GPS, to
me that just turns
> letterboxing into geocaching.
>



RE: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Kirbert (PalmK@nettally.com) | Date: 2007-08-25 23:41:13 UTC-04:00
Jars Of Clay wrote:

> that's called geo-cacheing

No, it's not. I discussed the idea at length on the AQ boards, and
everyone -- simply EVERYONE -- told me there is nothing anywhere that
says a letterbox cannot involve using a GPS to find.

> and not everyone can afford a gps unit

Perhaps, but everyone who can afford to drive 50 miles to find a
letterbox certainly can. My Lowrance iFinder GO cost me $75 online.

> so why limit those who could find it?

Because the box is planted in a place that there is no other way to
describe how to find it.

> that seems like a tough
> requirement, why not the option of GPS or directions concise or not?

In many cases, it's simply not possible to provide directions --
concise or otherwise. In other cases, following GPS coordinates is
what makes the hunt fun, describing step-by-step how to get there
would be a spoiler.

-- Kirbert

Re: Concise Directions

From: ontario_cacher (ontario_cacher@yahoo.ca) | Date: 2007-08-26 03:59:43 UTC

I like to figure out the general locations of the letterbox(es) and then
mark the locations in my GPS unit. For instance if the clues say,
'start at the corner of Lennox Avenue and Campbell Street, I can perform
a "find" in my GPS unit to find the intersection. Then I mark the
location with a flag. When I'm ready to go out to look for the letterbox
I use the 'find' feature again to drive me to the marked location using
the GPS's auto-routing system. It directs me to the the intersection
(tells me when to turn left, when to turn right, gives me the estimated
time of arrival, and how far away the location is). Saves me from having
to fumble with large maps while I'm driving and walking. Also, as my
eyesight declines it's getting harder and harder to read the tiny print
on paper maps, the GPS screen is a little easier because I can zoom in
for a closer look.

Lone R


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Baker" wrote:
>
> I think the thing to remember is that the GPS is a tool that can
belong
> in the letterboxers arsinal.



Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Nathan Brown (Cyclonic07@aol.com) | Date: 2007-08-26 07:18:34 UTC-04:00
Jars Of Clay wrote:
> LOL that's a good one, but again, what about those of us unfortunate enough to not have the means to have GPS? then what? we miss out on a box that could/would have been a great find?
>
>


I didn't know this was supposed to be fair. Not every letterbox is for
every letterboxer.

--
Nathan Brown

AKA Cyclonic
Penncoasters.com

The Insensitivity rolls on...

Virginia may be for lovers, but Pennsylvania has Intercourse!



Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Nathan Brown (Cyclonic07@aol.com) | Date: 2007-08-26 07:28:55 UTC-04:00
beckgirl0012004 wrote:
> When placing a box out in the woods, how else would you give directions
> if you're not making reference to large trees that look like ardvarks
> or large boulders etc. Even if you're giving compass directions, you
> still have to have a starting point. So outside of actually giving
> coordinates to be found with a GPS system..........what is a leterboxer
> to do??????? ~The Cats Meow~
>


There are lots of ways to write clues and give directions without giving
turn by turn instructions. You could write the clues as a story, or you
could use photos for clues. I have some clues that are a panoramic
photo where when you find that spot you are standing on the box. Clues
are limited only by your imagination and creativity.

--
Nathan Brown

AKA Cyclonic
Penncoasters.com

The Insensitivity rolls on...

Virginia may be for lovers, but Pennsylvania has Intercourse!



Re: Concise Directions

From: (ThreeHearts429@aol.com) | Date: 2007-08-26 09:49:48 UTC-04:00
>. That's why I have now planted a
> letterbox that requires a GPS to find, and hope that more people
> follow suit.
>
> -- Kirbert
>
>>>I hope they don't follow suit. I have boxed in FL and you are right it
does present a >>>different set of challenges but I just don't follow your
logic with the GPS, to me that just >>>turns letterboxing into geocaching.


Ditto...... Yes, we are *most* challenged here in Florida, but that just
forces us to be more creative. I recently boxed in Georgia for the first time
and was deeply envious of their rocks, but I have to say that I really love the
nooks and crannies of trees and roots - and the ubiquitous SPOM (suspicious
pile of moss). :o)

Peace, Love, and Letterboxing...
Three Hearts
_www.CFLLetterboxing.com_ (http://www.cflletterboxing.com/)




************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


[LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Brian, Ryan & Lori (teamgreendragon2003@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-08-26 13:58:49 UTC
>I discussed the idea at length on the AQ boards, and
>everyone -- simply EVERYONE -- told me there is nothing anywhere that
>says a letterbox cannot involve using a GPS to find.

From what I've seen of the AQ boards, it appears to be mostly newbies
patting each other on the back about having an icon of a cake pop up
next to their names and other such drivel. I wouldn't consider it a
source to be taken seriously.

On the other hand, you are right, there is nothing that says you
can't clue your boxes in this way. Kind of takes away from the spirit
of the whole thing though, I think.

Brian
TeamGreenDragon




Re: Concise Directions

From: Karen (quilter604@msn.com) | Date: 2007-08-26 16:15:04 UTC
My husband decided to staart a Boy Scout Venturing Crewthat would
revolve around geocaching. Being the economist of the group, I wanted
to know where we were going to come up with the funds to support buying
more GPS units. Solution: include Letterboxing.

Each hobby has a place in the hearts of each of us. I like that
connecting to a computer is not a matter of necessity here. I realize
that that will attract some of the youth to our program. I hope to feed
the creativity as well, in creating boxes, finding the most picture
perfect places to place them (we found great photo ops in Hawaii by
letterboxing,) and creating stamps & log books.

Yes DH is sometimes frustrated trying to letterbox with me. I am
equally frustrated trying to find Micros with him, (these are
containers the size of 'horse pills' often stuck with a magnet.)

Karen in Colorado


RE: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: xxxxxxxx (BrighidFarm@comcast.net) | Date: 2007-08-26 15:26:17 UTC-05:00


-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Kirbert
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 10:41 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions


I discussed the idea at length on the AQ boards, and
everyone -- simply EVERYONE -- told me there is nothing anywhere that
says a letterbox cannot involve using a GPS to find.

=============================

Is this something similar to that ol' "The Lurkers Support Me In Email"
theme??

But you're probably right. I doubt there will be any rule anywhere that
says a GPS unit can't be involved.

Once again, it's just lowering things to the Least Common Denominator.
Instead of dumbing things down for the finders, let's just start out by
dumbing things down for the placers. Does this mean the chicken really did
come first? Or does it just mean the rooster was impotent all along?

~~ Mosey ~~




RE: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Jars Of Clay (jarsofclaylb@hotmail.com) | Date: 2007-08-27 00:39:37 UTC
Valid point however why purposely make it impossible for some to do other than by choice? We didn't choose to not have the money for a GPS unit we just don't. Finders and placers alike lose out when a box can't be found by any and everyone. To each his own for sure. I suppose it's not a whole lot different than parking fees or placing boxes in zoos or amusement parks that require tickets to get into. (which we also don't completely agree with) Just seems kind of exclusive to force a choice. To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.comFrom: Cyclonic07@aol.comDate: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 07:18:34 -0400Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions


















Jars Of Clay wrote:
> LOL that's a good one, but again, what about those of us unfortunate enough to not have the means to have GPS? then what? we miss out on a box that could/would have been a great find?
>
>

I didn't know this was supposed to be fair. Not every letterbox is for
every letterboxer.

--
Nathan Brown

AKA Cyclonic
Penncoasters.com

The Insensitivity rolls on...

Virginia may be for lovers, but Pennsylvania has Intercourse!






















_________________________________________________________________
See what youre getting intobefore you go there
http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


RE: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Jars Of Clay (jarsofclaylb@hotmail.com) | Date: 2007-08-27 00:41:53 UTC
and don't forget to close your eyes as you walk past where the box is.To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.comFrom: PalmK@nettally.comDate: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 15:22:59 -0400Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions


















Samuel Checker wrote:

> "After you've passed the fourth 'gator, turn left at the large
> rattlesnake..."

"After you've walked through 17 spider webs, turn left into the broad
patch of poison ivy..."

-- Kirbert





















_________________________________________________________________
Learn. Laugh. Share. Reallivemoms is right place!
http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


RE: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Jars Of Clay (jarsofclaylb@hotmail.com) | Date: 2007-08-27 00:46:24 UTC
hey, sorry definitely didn't mean to insult, just voicing an opinion that's all. and pouting over the inability to get a box and um btw if we spend the money to drive the 50 miles we no longer have the money to spend on the GPS. *wink* whatever though. To each his own as I said just sad that we have to miss out.To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.comFrom: PalmK@nettally.comDate: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 23:41:13 -0400Subject: RE: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions


















Jars Of Clay wrote:

> that's called geo-cacheing

No, it's not. I discussed the idea at length on the AQ boards, and
everyone -- simply EVERYONE -- told me there is nothing anywhere that
says a letterbox cannot involve using a GPS to find.

> and not everyone can afford a gps unit

Perhaps, but everyone who can afford to drive 50 miles to find a
letterbox certainly can. My Lowrance iFinder GO cost me $75 online.

> so why limit those who could find it?

Because the box is planted in a place that there is no other way to
describe how to find it.

> that seems like a tough
> requirement, why not the option of GPS or directions concise or not?

In many cases, it's simply not possible to provide directions --
concise or otherwise. In other cases, following GPS coordinates is
what makes the hunt fun, describing step-by-step how to get there
would be a spoiler.

-- Kirbert





















_________________________________________________________________
Learn. Laugh. Share. Reallivemoms is right place!
http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


RE: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Jars Of Clay (jarsofclaylb@hotmail.com) | Date: 2007-08-27 00:48:11 UTC
here here!To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.comFrom: teamgreendragon2003@yahoo.comDate: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 13:58:49 +0000Subject: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions


















>I discussed the idea at length on the AQ boards, and
>everyone -- simply EVERYONE -- told me there is nothing anywhere that
>says a letterbox cannot involve using a GPS to find.

Re: Concise Directions

From: mizscarlet731 (mizscarlet731@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-08-27 01:04:54 UTC

>
>
> It is still different then geocaching, there is still a point to it. I
> call it geoboxing.
>
> --
>I thought it was called lettercaching.



[LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Baker (knightbaker63@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-08-27 01:52:08 UTC
This type of argument keeps repeating on this forum over and over
agian. That being "The proper way to letterbox" This one thing that I
keep coming back to and that most here seem to voice is that the how
is up to you. You are free to letterbox anyway you wish as long as
you don't impact on the activity in a negative way. But, clues,
stamps and containers are all up; to you and your creativity. If you
want to use a gps to locate your box go for it. If after a year you
only have two visitors well then you may wish to reconsider your use
of the gps or say ta hell with it and leave it be. This sport is
demacracy in action. If people like your idea they will come, if they
don't then they won't .

I have a couple of remote Lb's and one has only 3 vistors in one
year. The clues to the box are easy, but the hike to the box is a
little vague. I could leave it alone and leave it for the dihards or
I could modify things a little and try and make the hike a little
more user friendly for boxers who are not as comfortable in the
woodlands. This weekend I walked the trail again and wrote a more
discriptive trail guide with landmarks given all the way up to the
Lb. Soon I will include with that a series that will end at this
place that I would like to bring people to. You see like using the
GPS you can make modifications things easier or more difficult for
the finder...it is your choice. It's a about the FREEDOM!

That's my 2 cents.


Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Nathan Brown (Cyclonic07@aol.com) | Date: 2007-08-26 22:00:22 UTC-04:00
Brian, Ryan & Lori wrote:
>> I discussed the idea at length on the AQ boards, and
>> everyone -- simply EVERYONE -- told me there is nothing anywhere that
>> says a letterbox cannot involve using a GPS to find.
>>
>
> On the other hand, you are right, there is nothing that says you
> can't clue your boxes in this way. Kind of takes away from the spirit
> of the whole thing though, I think.
>
> Brian
> TeamGreenDragon
>


Indeed, I think just posting coordinates to a box would be boring,
however, if you had to figure those coordinates out through some other
means and then go hunt the box, that would be much more enjoyable. I do
believe Mapsurfer has a most eeevil box along those lines.

--
Nathan Brown

AKA Cyclonic
Penncoasters.com

The Insensitivity rolls on...

Virginia may be for lovers, but Pennsylvania has Intercourse!



Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Nathan Brown (Cyclonic07@aol.com) | Date: 2007-08-26 22:04:30 UTC-04:00
xxxxxxxx wrote:
> But you're probably right. I doubt there will be any rule anywhere that
> says a GPS unit can't be involved.
>
>

There are rules? And a book? Jeez, wish I'd been let in on these
things. All this time I've been doing it how I want, with little care
if others will like it or not. I guess I play by my own rules.

> Once again, it's just lowering things to the Least Common Denominator.
> Instead of dumbing things down for the finders, let's just start out by
> dumbing things down for the placers. Does this mean the chicken really did
> come first? Or does it just mean the rooster was impotent all along?
>
> ~~ Mosey ~~
>


There is, you know, more then one way to plant a box. At least I think
there is, or is that against the rules too.

--
Nathan Brown

AKA Cyclonic
Penncoasters.com

The Insensitivity rolls on...

Virginia may be for lovers, but Pennsylvania has Intercourse!



Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: (Stellabaker123@aol.com) | Date: 2007-08-26 22:15:08 UTC-04:00
This GPS stuff is getting a fun hobby into a high tec walk in the woods. Take a stamp, a logbook and a pen and maybe a compass if the clues refer to compass point.? It's the walk ( hike) ?to get away from it all as well as ?the hunt,the joy of the outdoors, the discovery of new places.???


-----Original Message-----
From: ontario_cacher
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 11:59 pm
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions







I like to figure out the general locations of the letterbox(es) and then
mark the locations in my GPS unit. For instance if the clues say,
'start at the corner of Lennox Avenue and Campbell Street, I can perform
a "find" in my GPS unit to find the intersection. Then I mark the
location with a flag. When I'm ready to go out to look for the letterbox
I use the 'find' feature again to drive me to the marked location using
the GPS's auto-routing system. It directs me to the the intersection
(tells me when to turn left, when to turn right, gives me the estimated
time of arrival, and how far away the location is). Saves me from having
to fumble with large maps while I'm driving and walking. Also, as my
eyesight declines it's getting harder and harder to read the tiny print
on paper maps, the GPS screen is a little easier because I can zoom in
for a closer look.

Lone R

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Baker" wrote:
>
> I think the thing to remember is that the GPS is a tool that can
belong
> in the letterboxers arsinal.





________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Nathan Brown (Cyclonic07@aol.com) | Date: 2007-08-26 22:16:32 UTC-04:00
Jars Of Clay wrote:
> Valid point however why purposely make it impossible for some to do other than by choice? We didn't choose to not have the money for a GPS unit we just don't. Finders and placers alike lose out when a box can't be found by any and everyone. To each his own for sure. I suppose it's not a whole lot different than parking fees or placing boxes in zoos or amusement parks that require tickets to get into. (which we also don't completely agree with) Just seems kind of exclusive to force a choice.



What if someone is wheel chair bound, should we put every letterbox
right along the trail for them? They don't even have a choice in the
matter. What about people with small children, I guess every box should
be under a mile in distance. And I guess I should just stop making
mystery boxes, because there are people out there that are just too
stupid to figure it out, and they should be able to get the box as well.

It comes down to this, if you don't want to find a box, then don't.
Don't complain about it, just skip it and move on to the next one. I
don't expect everyone to be able to find all of my boxes, and am not
disappointed if they don't. Heck, I was proud that I had a box that
went 18 months before it was found, it was just a hard box. I have one
box on the top of a mountain that you have to pay to ride a ski lift to
get to. It is not for everyone. Not everyone will be willing to pay to
ride it, and not everyone will be willing to even get on the ski lift,
but I like the box, and that is all that matters.

Yes, yes it is exclusive to force a choice, and you know what, that is
just too bad. would be pretty boring if all the letterboxes out there
were in the same types of places, wouldn't it? So yes, not every
letterbox is for every letterboxer, it is something you should learn to
live with, because that is how life is.

--
Nathan Brown

AKA Cyclonic
Penncoasters.com

The Insensitivity rolls on...

Virginia may be for lovers, but Pennsylvania has Intercourse!



Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Nathan Brown (Cyclonic07@aol.com) | Date: 2007-08-26 22:19:18 UTC-04:00
mizscarlet731 wrote:
>> It is still different then geocaching, there is still a point to it. I
>> call it geoboxing.
>>
>> --
>> I thought it was called lettercaching.
>>


I think Geoboxing has a nicer ring to it, and works better. After all,
you are not caching anything in the box, and it may confuse the
geocachers who may walk off with your stamp and leave a plastic mouse in
its place.

--
Nathan Brown

AKA Cyclonic
Penncoasters.com

The Insensitivity rolls on...

Virginia may be for lovers, but Pennsylvania has Intercourse!



Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Nathan Brown (Cyclonic07@aol.com) | Date: 2007-08-26 22:20:39 UTC-04:00
Kirbert wrote:
> Samuel Checker wrote:
>
>
>> "After you've passed the fourth 'gator, turn left at the large
>> rattlesnake..."
>>
>
> "After you've walked through 17 spider webs, turn left into the broad
> patch of poison ivy..."
>
> -- Kirbert
>

Oh, so you've boxed in Pennsylvania before? ;-)

--
Nathan Brown

AKA Cyclonic
Penncoasters.com

The Insensitivity rolls on...

Virginia may be for lovers, but Pennsylvania has Intercourse!



[LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: gramatrick (dewberrylb@gmail.com) | Date: 2007-08-27 02:49:36 UTC
If every box were findable by everyone, then they'd all be
wheelchair-accessible boxes we could reach without every getting out
of our cars. But in truth, that might discriminate against those
finders without cars, so I'm not sure you could ever create a box that
was findable by everyone in every circumstance. So I suggest giving
that up as our goal.

I plant a wide range of boxes. Some are easy no-brainers, some are
more complicated puzzles. Some are longer hikes, some are short
walk-ups. I'm cool with that, because as a result of the different
planting/clue styles, each box gets different finders. And of course,
I have some that have been out there for years with just a few finders
--I could care less. For me, it's not about the number of finders,
but hopefully the positive experience people have had in reaching the box.

So, each box has a different target audience if you will. To me,
planting boxes you need a GPS, a canoe, a cipher book, scuba
equipment, a zipline or an airplane to find is really no different
than a box requiring a 15 mile hike. Nothing is for everyone.

Personally, I try to enjoy the boxes I can find rather than pining
about the ones I can't.

dewberry

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Jars Of Clay
wrote:
>
> Valid point however why purposely make it impossible for some to do
other than by choice? We didn't choose to not have the money for a GPS
unit we just don't. Finders and placers alike lose out when a box
can't be found by any and everyone. To each his own for sure. I
suppose it's not a whole lot different than parking fees or placing
boxes in zoos or amusement parks that require tickets to get into.
(which we also don't completely agree with) Just seems kind of
exclusive to force a choice. To: letterbox-usa@...: Cyclonic07@...:
Sun, 26 Aug 2007 07:18:34 -0400Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jars Of Clay wrote:
> > LOL that's a good one, but again, what about those of us
unfortunate enough to not have the means to have GPS? then what? we
miss out on a box that could/would have been a great find?
> >
> >
>
> I didn't know this was supposed to be fair. Not every letterbox is for
> every letterboxer.
>
> --
> Nathan Brown
>
> AKA Cyclonic
> Penncoasters.com
>
> The Insensitivity rolls on...
>
> Virginia may be for lovers, but Pennsylvania has Intercourse!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> See what you're getting intobefore you go there
>
http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Suzanne Coe (wilmcoe@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-08-26 20:25:39 UTC-07:00
you would have to pay ME to ride the ski lift....

Nathan Brown wrote: I have one
box on the top of a mountain that you have to pay to ride a ski lift to
get to.

---------------------------------
Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Suzanne Coe (wilmcoe@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-08-26 20:40:12 UTC-07:00
Is THAT why we keep looking for some rock X number of paces at Y degrees from random points on the globe???? And ending up in greenbriar & poison ivy???

Sheba
"No more GPS for you!" =)

Nathan Brown wrote:
however, if you had to figure those coordinates out through some other
means and then go hunt the box, that would be much more enjoyable. I do
believe Mapsurfer has a most eeevil box along those lines.


---------------------------------
Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Suzanne Coe (wilmcoe@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-08-26 20:44:44 UTC-07:00
I liked the term "cacheboxing" myself. (not my coining, I think it was Der Mad Stamper originally....)

Sheba

mizscarlet731 wrote:

>
>
> It is still different then geocaching, there is still a point to it. I
> call it geoboxing.
>
> --
>I thought it was called lettercaching.





Yahoo! Groups Links






---------------------------------
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Nathan Brown (Cyclonic07@aol.com) | Date: 2007-08-27 00:10:11 UTC-04:00
Suzanne Coe wrote:
> you would have to pay ME to ride the ski lift....
>
>


Wimp!

--
Nathan Brown

AKA Cyclonic
Penncoasters.com

The Insensitivity rolls on...

Virginia may be for lovers, but Pennsylvania has Intercourse!



Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Suzanne Coe (wilmcoe@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-08-26 21:10:20 UTC-07:00
No, Kirbert puts a chain on 'em and fastens 'em to a tree.... =)

Sheba

Gary & Elizabeth Anderson wrote:
Eh??? You have petrified gators and r'snakes down there??? ;-)



At 01:17 PM 8/24/2007, you wrote:
>"After you've passed the fourth 'gator, turn left at the large
>rattlesnake..."
>
>On 8/24/07, Kirbert
wrote:
> >
> > beckgirl0012004 wrote:
> >
> > > When placing a box out in the woods, how else would you give
> > > directions if you're not making reference to large trees that look
> > > like ardvarks or large boulders etc. Even if you're giving compass
> > > directions, you still have to have a starting point. So outside of
> > > actually giving coordinates to be found with a GPS
> > > system..........what is a leterboxer to do???????
> >
> > That's what I've been saying. Here in Florida, all the trees look
> > alike and there are no boulders. Even most letterboxers don't seem
> > to realize just how severely limited they are in possible hiding
> > places compared with geocaching. That's why I have now planted a
> > letterbox that requires a GPS to find, and hope that more people
> > follow suit.
> >
> > -- Kirbert
> >
> >
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Yahoo! Groups Links






---------------------------------
Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Concise Directions

From: (ThreeHearts429@aol.com) | Date: 2007-08-27 08:05:16 UTC-04:00
>>>It doesn't turn letterboxing into geocaching until you start putting
>>>junk in the letterboxes.
>>>-- Kirbert


Hmmm...well, when you put it that way, I have to agree with that logic! lol
:o) Rotting happy meal toys and bug wipes just don't do anything for me...

Peace, Love, and Letterboxing...
Three Hearts
_www.CFLLetterboxing.com_ (http://www.cflletterboxing.com/)




************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


RE: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: (letterbox@comcast.net) | Date: 2007-08-27 13:29:19 UTC


from: Jars Of Clay
> Finders and placers alike lose out when a box can't be found by any and
> everyone.

I would have to disagree with this. If all boxes were placed with the intent of being found by any and everyone, a lot of the more creative and challenging boxes would not exist -- and that would be where we lose out. There are many boxes placed knowing that they will not be accessible to families with small children or to people with physical limitations that prevent them from long or strenuous hikes. There are mystery clues that the placer never intended for more than a handful of people to decipher and may require research far beyond the ability of most people. There are boxes that require one to dive or use a boat or other special type of equipment and as you noted, those that require admission fees to the park, etc. where the box is placed.

If somebody wants to clue their box using a GPS, that is their option. Who is to say that a compass is affordable enough to use for writing clues but a GPS is not? It all depends on your circumstances. Fortunately there are MANY boxes that do not require a GPS and even some that do not require a compass. Isn't that what makes letterboxing what it is -- that no matter what your circumstances, there are probably boxes that will work for you?

While it may be frustrating when you have to pass up a box because of circumstances beyond your control, not all letterboxes are for all letterboxers, nor should they be.

SpringChick

Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: R (ontario_cacher@yahoo.ca) | Date: 2007-08-27 09:37:35 UTC-04:00
For me, it's not about the contents of the geocache but more about the adventure of searching for the box, the new places it takes me too, the hopefully scenic locations (or historical or educational or peaceful, etc), the exercise, the hide 'n seek fun, the stealth of the find.

When it comes to letterboxing it's all about the above *and* the contents of the box - love collecting those stamp images, especially the personal art (i.e. carved stamp images).

Lone R

ThreeHearts429@aol.com wrote: >>>It doesn't turn letterboxing into geocaching until you start putting
>>>junk in the letterboxes.
>>>-- Kirbert


Hmmm...well, when you put it that way, I have to agree with that logic! lol
:o) Rotting happy meal toys and bug wipes just don't do anything for me...

Peace, Love, and Letterboxing...
Three Hearts
_www.CFLLetterboxing.com_ (http://www.cflletterboxing.com/)

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
All new Yahoo! Mail -
---------------------------------
Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [LbNA] Concise Directions

From: mmoskell (AltairIV@optonline.net) | Date: 2007-08-27 14:24:24 UTC
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Stellabaker123@... wrote:
>
> I know how you feel.? It has happened to me.? That is why I am
always ?very happy when I fine a letterbox and in good condition.?
Anyway, the walk or hike is a plus.? Finding new places too is
great.? I go with my daughters or grandkids?and that's always a good
time to talk and get away from the TV.
>
> STAR:W+S=DRR
> ?----Original Message-----
> From: Rusty Judd
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 8:30 am
> Subject: [LbNA] Concise Directions
>
> I agree, it's very disappointing to look for these "movable clues"
and not find them. I found that sometimes the the box is moved by an
animal or not replaced in the same spot as it was found. The clues
are only to narrow down the spot. Sometimes I find I really have to
look around the area more thoroughly. Th 80 degrees end up being 90
etc. I know it's really is frustrating when you have hiked for 2
hours to look for the spot and can't find the box. I am really
annoyed when you email someone to tell them the box is not there and
they never get back to you - I think if those that place the
letterbox should go back periodically to see if the clue still fit
and the box is still there.
>
>
>
>
> Do any of you letterbox folks feel this way at times -- I know we
do --- I'd
> like to ask that when you hide a letterbox, your clues on finding
it are as
> clear as possible. YOU know where it is; WE don't. When you say its
the
> tree that looks like an aardvark 50 paces to the left of the big
rock ----
> well maybe the tree doesn't look like an aardvark to me and in a
woodsy
> setting there are 500000000000 rocks.
>
> I cant tell you how many we have gone to find following clues like
walk up
> the road til you find a big tree with a branch that hangs low.
> In nature preserves and parks there are a ton of trees with
branches that
> hang low.
>
> Also, if you plant a box in the spring be aware that by august the
weeds and
> vines will grow and make it more difficult to find ---- if not
impossible if
> you have to cut thru vines and poison ivy etc to get to it,
>
> Remember too that naturally occurring landmarks like trees or
stumps or
> whatever can be cut down or moved or blown over in storms ----- the
tree or
> log that may be lying across the stream in Nov may no longer be
there next
> April or May. The tree that looked like an aardvark may have blown
over and
> now looks like a dead hippo on the ground.
>
> We really enjoy taking a nice sunny Saturday afternoon to get out
and search
> for these but many times our adventurous outing just turns to
frustration
> because someone has written "walk down the road til you find a
stone wall
> and the box is on the left of the stone wall" when it is actually
on the
> right. Across from the big white and yellow house -- when it
actuality it
> was not across from it but a half mile down the road and around a
corner.
> (Two clues from a recent letter box with details changed a bit to
not point
> to anyone specific)
>
> I know the fun of letterboxing is the hunt but when it gets
frustrating
> because the clues are vague or just wrong it really does tend to
put a
> damper on the fun.
>
> The Sleeping Puppies
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
__
> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's
free from AOL at AOL.com.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Nathan Brown (Cyclonic07@aol.com) | Date: 2007-08-27 11:31:05 UTC-04:00
letterbox@comcast.net wrote:
> from: Jars Of Clay
>
>> Finders and placers alike lose out when a box can't be found by any and
>> everyone.
>>
>
> I would have to disagree with this. If all boxes were placed with the intent of being found by any and everyone, a lot of the more creative and challenging boxes would not exist -- and that would be where we lose out. There are many boxes placed knowing that they will not be accessible to families with small children or to people with physical limitations that prevent them from long or strenuous hikes. There are mystery clues that the placer never intended for more than a handful of people to decipher and may require research far beyond the ability of most people. There are boxes that require one to dive or use a boat or other special type of equipment and as you noted, those that require admission fees to the park, etc. where the box is placed.
>
> If somebody wants to clue their box using a GPS, that is their option. Who is to say that a compass is affordable enough to use for writing clues but a GPS is not? It all depends on your circumstances. Fortunately there are MANY boxes that do not require a GPS and even some that do not require a compass. Isn't that what makes letterboxing what it is -- that no matter what your circumstances, there are probably boxes that will work for you?
>
> While it may be frustrating when you have to pass up a box because of circumstances beyond your control, not all letterboxes are for all letterboxers, nor should they be.
>
> SpringChick
>

Damn, it must be cold in hell today.

Totally agree.

--
Nathan Brown

AKA Cyclonic
Penncoasters.com

The Insensitivity rolls on...

Virginia may be for lovers, but Pennsylvania has Intercourse!



Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: (letterbox@comcast.net) | Date: 2007-08-27 17:42:51 UTC
Ha! I'm sure it is just a temporary equipment malfunction and the heat will be back before you know it ;-)

SpringChick


-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Nathan Brown

> Damn, it must be cold in hell today.
>
> Totally agree.
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


[LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Betty (floridasunsets1017@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-08-27 20:00:36 UTC
> "and not everyone can afford a gps unit"

"Perhaps, but everyone who can afford to drive 50 miles to find a
letterbox certainly can. My Lowrance iFinder GO cost me $75 online."

Not to be a nudge, but your assumption of people's fiances is an
incorrect conclusion to your logic problem there. You've assumed that
if A is true, B must be true. But it's not. In our case, we can either
drive the 50 miles or buy the GPS. Not both.

> "so why limit those who could find it?"

"Because the box is planted in a place that there is no other way to
describe how to find it."

This makes me sad. It's a box that we will never be able to get. But
that's okay, too. I'm just very grateful that not everyone shares this
view. The lack of high-tech equipment is what drew us to letterboxing
over geocaching. The bizarre clues that sometimes have us going back a
couple of times or missing a box totally just give us more stories for
around the fire. Am I dissappointed that we had to abandon or efforts
while we were on vacation in Pennsylvania and North Carolina because we
couldn't find the "right" oak tree or "third rock from the sun." Sure.
But let me tell you, those clues live on in our home. That's all part
of the fun, too. Just my two cents. Hate me if you want to, love me if
you can.
Florida Sunsets



Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: sandra listorti (domedreamer@sbcglobal.net) | Date: 2007-08-27 13:15:35 UTC-07:00
Wow. Where are you buying gas that it costs $75 to drive 50 miles? Around these parts it would cost less than $5 if you have a car that gets decent mileage.

Domedreamer

Betty wrote: > "and not everyone can afford a gps unit"

"Perhaps, but everyone who can afford to drive 50 miles to find a
letterbox certainly can. My Lowrance iFinder GO cost me $75 online."












[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


[LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Betty (floridasunsets1017@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-08-27 20:37:11 UTC
Hmmm, I think you've missed the point.

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, sandra listorti
wrote:
>
> Wow. Where are you buying gas that it costs $75 to drive 50
miles? Around these parts it would cost less than $5 if you have a
car that gets decent mileage.
>
> Domedreamer
>
> Betty wrote:
> "and not everyone can afford a gps unit"
>
> "Perhaps, but everyone who can afford to drive 50 miles to find a
> letterbox certainly can. My Lowrance iFinder GO cost me $75
online."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: sandra listorti (domedreamer@sbcglobal.net) | Date: 2007-08-27 13:42:45 UTC-07:00
No, I got it. I think you missed the joke.

Domedreamer

Betty wrote: Hmmm, I think you've missed the point.

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, sandra listorti
wrote:
>
> Wow. Where are you buying gas that it costs $75 to drive 50
miles? Around these parts it would cost less than $5 if you have a
car that gets decent mileage.
>
> Domedreamer
>
> Betty wrote:
> "and not everyone can afford a gps unit"
>
> "Perhaps, but everyone who can afford to drive 50 miles to find a
> letterbox certainly can. My Lowrance iFinder GO cost me $75
online."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


[LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Betty (floridasunsets1017@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-08-27 20:47:31 UTC
I am pretty blonde...can you explain it?

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, sandra listorti
wrote:
>
> No, I got it. I think you missed the joke.
>
> Domedreamer
>
> Betty wrote:
Hmmm, I think you've missed the point.
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, sandra listorti
> wrote:
> >
> > Wow. Where are you buying gas that it costs $75 to drive 50
> miles? Around these parts it would cost less than $5 if you have
a
> car that gets decent mileage.
> >
> > Domedreamer
> >
> > Betty wrote:
> > "and not everyone can afford a gps unit"
> >
> > "Perhaps, but everyone who can afford to drive 50 miles to find
a
> > letterbox certainly can. My Lowrance iFinder GO cost me $75
> online."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: sandra listorti (domedreamer@sbcglobal.net) | Date: 2007-08-27 13:53:01 UTC-07:00
The wording of your response implied that the cost of driving 50 miles is comparable to the purchase of a $75 piece of equipment.

Domedreamer

Betty wrote: I am pretty blonde...can you explain it?

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, sandra listorti
wrote:
>
> No, I got it. I think you missed the joke.
>
> Domedreamer
>
> Betty wrote:
Hmmm, I think you've missed the point.
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, sandra listorti
> wrote:
> >
> > Wow. Where are you buying gas that it costs $75 to drive 50
> miles? Around these parts it would cost less than $5 if you have
a
> car that gets decent mileage.
> >
> > Domedreamer
> >
> > Betty wrote:
> > "and not everyone can afford a gps unit"
> >
> > "Perhaps, but everyone who can afford to drive 50 miles to find
a
> > letterbox certainly can. My Lowrance iFinder GO cost me $75
> online."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


[LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Betty (floridasunsets1017@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-08-27 21:08:35 UTC
Actually, no I didn't imply that, you inferred that. I merely stated
that it is incorrect to assume that because a person can afford one
or the other, that they can afford both.

Oh, and your $5 for gas does not take into account the return trip.
So your math problem for the day is:

If a letterbox is 50 miles away and my minivan gets 22 mpg. Gas at my
local Walmart costs $2.56 per gallon, how much would it cost to
travel there and back?

Yes, I know, my math problem is a bit much, but my point is that
arguements based on assumptions and generalizations are not very
strong or valid arguments.

As for the whole GPS thing, I hope it doesn't become a trend. I love
the creativity of letterboxing. Will we find an "out of the box"
solution to finding a GPS box without buying a GPS? Probably. That's
just the kind of people we are. Knowing us, we'll probably make it a
geography lesson and have the kids figure it out, lol!

Not all letterboxes are for all letterboxers. Ain't it the truth. I
am just grateful that there are plenty that ARE for us. By the way,
thanks to all of you who do take the time to plant boxes. Please,
know that we really appreciate it.

Hate me if you want to, love me if you can.
Florida Sunsets


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, sandra listorti
wrote:
>
> The wording of your response implied that the cost of driving 50
miles is comparable to the purchase of a $75 piece of equipment.
>
> Domedreamer
>
> Betty wrote:
I am pretty blonde...can you explain it?
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, sandra listorti
> wrote:
> >
> > No, I got it. I think you missed the joke.
> >
> > Domedreamer
> >
> > Betty wrote:
> Hmmm, I think you've missed the point.
> >
> > --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, sandra listorti
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Wow. Where are you buying gas that it costs $75 to drive 50
> > miles? Around these parts it would cost less than $5 if you
have
> a
> > car that gets decent mileage.
> > >
> > > Domedreamer
> > >
> > > Betty
wrote:
> > > "and not everyone can afford a gps unit"
> > >
> > > "Perhaps, but everyone who can afford to drive 50 miles to
find
> a
> > > letterbox certainly can. My Lowrance iFinder GO cost me $75
> > online."
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: sandra listorti (domedreamer@sbcglobal.net) | Date: 2007-08-27 14:19:25 UTC-07:00
You know, it was a joke - the wording of your response can be interpreted different ways (or maybe it was someone else's response, I have lost track). Either way, just because someone can afford the gas to drive 50 miles, or a hundred miles, doesn't mean that they can afford to buy extra equipment for a hobby that many people enjoy partly because they don't have to buy expensive gear. I am in agreement that being able to afford one doesn't mean that a person can afford both. If I had to buy a gps to be a letterboxer, I wouldn't be a letterboxer, but that simply means that I will not do a box that requires one, which is no loss as there are plenty of other boxes out there - and well within a fifty mile radius, so I guess I have the best of both worlds.

Domedreamer

Betty wrote: Actually, no I didn't imply that, you inferred that. I merely stated
that it is incorrect to assume that because a person can afford one
or the other, that they can afford both.

Oh, and your $5 for gas does not take into account the return trip.
So your math problem for the day is:

If a letterbox is 50 miles away and my minivan gets 22 mpg. Gas at my
local Walmart costs $2.56 per gallon, how much would it cost to
travel there and back?

Yes, I know, my math problem is a bit much, but my point is that
arguements based on assumptions and generalizations are not very
strong or valid arguments.

As for the whole GPS thing, I hope it doesn't become a trend. I love
the creativity of letterboxing. Will we find an "out of the box"
solution to finding a GPS box without buying a GPS? Probably. That's
just the kind of people we are. Knowing us, we'll probably make it a
geography lesson and have the kids figure it out, lol!

Not all letterboxes are for all letterboxers. Ain't it the truth. I
am just grateful that there are plenty that ARE for us. By the way,
thanks to all of you who do take the time to plant boxes. Please,
know that we really appreciate it.

Hate me if you want to, love me if you can.
Florida Sunsets

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, sandra listorti
wrote:
>
> The wording of your response implied that the cost of driving 50
miles is comparable to the purchase of a $75 piece of equipment.
>
> Domedreamer
>
> Betty wrote:
I am pretty blonde...can you explain it?
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, sandra listorti
> wrote:
> >
> > No, I got it. I think you missed the joke.
> >
> > Domedreamer
> >
> > Betty wrote:
> Hmmm, I think you've missed the point.
> >
> > --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, sandra listorti
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Wow. Where are you buying gas that it costs $75 to drive 50
> > miles? Around these parts it would cost less than $5 if you
have
> a
> > car that gets decent mileage.
> > >
> > > Domedreamer
> > >
> > > Betty
wrote:
> > > "and not everyone can afford a gps unit"
> > >
> > > "Perhaps, but everyone who can afford to drive 50 miles to
find
> a
> > > letterbox certainly can. My Lowrance iFinder GO cost me $75
> > online."
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: tony pecchia (anthony.pecchia@cox.net) | Date: 2007-08-27 17:24:50 UTC-04:00


Oh, and your $5 for gas does not take into account the return trip.
So your math problem for the day is:

If a letterbox is 50 miles away and my minivan gets 22 mpg. Gas at my
local Walmart costs $2.56 per gallon, how much would it cost to
travel there and back?
Recent Activity
a.. 19New Members
Visit Your Group
Health Zone
Look your best!

Groups to help you

look & feel great.

Yahoo! Finance
It's Now Personal

Guides, news,

advice & more.

Yahoo! Groups
Be a Better Planet

Share with others

Help the Planet.
.

$11.64

Tony

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Gary & Elizabeth Anderson (garyliza@arkwest.com) | Date: 2007-08-27 16:31:36 UTC-05:00
At 04:08 PM 8/27/2007, you wrote:
>Actually, no I didn't imply that, you inferred that. I merely stated
>that it is incorrect to assume that because a person can afford one
>or the other, that they can afford both.
>
>Oh, and your $5 for gas does not take into account the return trip.
>So your math problem for the day is:
>
>If a letterbox is 50 miles away and my minivan gets 22 mpg. Gas at my
>local Walmart costs $2.56 per gallon, how much would it cost to
>travel there and back?

Well, let's see,,, 50 miles away is 100 round
trip, divided by 22 mpg equals: 4.54 gallons X
$2.56 per gallon equals: $11.62. NOW, if you
figure in wear and tear on engine, tires, etc.
it'll be more, that's just actual gas. So, let's see....

The 2007 IRS mileage rate for business use is
48.5 cents per mile, up from 44.5 cents for 2006.

So, you take the 100 miles X 48.5, and THAT
comes up to $48.50,,,, getting closer to that cost for a GPS.... ;-)

signed:
Gary,,, just trying to be helpful....

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Kirbert (PalmK@nettally.com) | Date: 2007-08-27 17:42:52 UTC-04:00
sandra listorti wrote:

> Wow. Where are you buying gas that it costs $75 to drive 50 miles?
> Around these parts it would cost less than $5 if you have a car that
> gets decent mileage.

If you think the cost of gasoline is the only cost involved in
driving, you've got another think coming. And if you can find a car
that costs less than 25 cents a mile to operate, including fuel,
maintenance, tires, insurance, and depreciation of the car itself,
buy it. That'll make the 100-mile round trip cost $25. If you can
afford that, you can afford $75 for a GPS. I'm sorry, but the excuse
that a GPS is unaffordable just doesn't wash for anyone who travels
at all to find letterboxes. People don't buy a GPS because they're
scared of the technology or just not interested in it, not because
they can't afford it.

-- Kirbert

[LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Betty (floridasunsets1017@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-08-27 22:02:15 UTC
That pesky lack of voice inletion sure does make joking a challenge
on these boards, lol, but we seemed to have gotten around that. :)


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, sandra listorti
wrote:
>
> You know, it was a joke - the wording of your response can be
interpreted different ways (or maybe it was someone else's response,
I have lost track). Either way, just because someone can afford the
gas to drive 50 miles, or a hundred miles, doesn't mean that they can
afford to buy extra equipment for a hobby that many people enjoy
partly because they don't have to buy expensive gear. I am in
agreement that being able to afford one doesn't mean that a person
can afford both. If I had to buy a gps to be a letterboxer, I
wouldn't be a letterboxer, but that simply means that I will not do a
box that requires one, which is no loss as there are plenty of other
boxes out there - and well within a fifty mile radius, so I guess I
have the best of both worlds.
>
> Domedreamer
>
> Betty wrote:
Actually, no I didn't imply that, you inferred that. I merely stated
> that it is incorrect to assume that because a person can afford
one
> or the other, that they can afford both.
>
> Oh, and your $5 for gas does not take into account the return
trip.
> So your math problem for the day is:
>
> If a letterbox is 50 miles away and my minivan gets 22 mpg. Gas at
my
> local Walmart costs $2.56 per gallon, how much would it cost to
> travel there and back?
>
> Yes, I know, my math problem is a bit much, but my point is that
> arguements based on assumptions and generalizations are not very
> strong or valid arguments.
>
> As for the whole GPS thing, I hope it doesn't become a trend. I
love
> the creativity of letterboxing. Will we find an "out of the box"
> solution to finding a GPS box without buying a GPS? Probably.
That's
> just the kind of people we are. Knowing us, we'll probably make it
a
> geography lesson and have the kids figure it out, lol!
>
> Not all letterboxes are for all letterboxers. Ain't it the truth.
I
> am just grateful that there are plenty that ARE for us. By the
way,
> thanks to all of you who do take the time to plant boxes. Please,
> know that we really appreciate it.
>
> Hate me if you want to, love me if you can.
> Florida Sunsets
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, sandra listorti
> wrote:
> >
> > The wording of your response implied that the cost of driving 50
> miles is comparable to the purchase of a $75 piece of equipment.
> >
> > Domedreamer
> >
> > Betty wrote:
> I am pretty blonde...can you explain it?
> >
> > --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, sandra listorti
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > No, I got it. I think you missed the joke.
> > >
> > > Domedreamer
> > >
> > > Betty
wrote:
> > Hmmm, I think you've missed the point.
> > >
> > > --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, sandra listorti
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Wow. Where are you buying gas that it costs $75 to drive
50
> > > miles? Around these parts it would cost less than $5 if you
> have
> > a
> > > car that gets decent mileage.
> > > >
> > > > Domedreamer
> > > >
> > > > Betty
> wrote:
> > > > "and not everyone can afford a gps unit"
> > > >
> > > > "Perhaps, but everyone who can afford to drive 50 miles
to
> find
> > a
> > > > letterbox certainly can. My Lowrance iFinder GO cost me
$75
> > > online."
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



RE: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Jars Of Clay (jarsofclaylb@hotmail.com) | Date: 2007-08-27 23:22:45 UTC
no need to get so feisty I didn't realize I wasn't allowed to have an opinion on the topic. I said do what you like. I once climbed up a mountain while it was raining so hard the trail was a river. It doesn't matter you have your opinion I have mine. Agree to disagree and move on. Deal with the fact that I don't agree with you. being nasty isn't necessary. I said to each his own what more do you want?To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.comFrom: Cyclonic07@aol.comDate: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 22:16:32 -0400Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions


















Jars Of Clay wrote:
> Valid point however why purposely make it impossible for some to do other than by choice? We didn't choose to not have the money for a GPS unit we just don't. Finders and placers alike lose out when a box can't be found by any and everyone. To each his own for sure. I suppose it's not a whole lot different than parking fees or placing boxes in zoos or amusement parks that require tickets to get into. (which we also don't completely agree with) Just seems kind of exclusive to force a choice.

What if someone is wheel chair bound, should we put every letterbox
right along the trail for them? They don't even have a choice in the
matter. What about people with small children, I guess every box should
be under a mile in distance. And I guess I should just stop making
mystery boxes, because there are people out there that are just too
stupid to figure it out, and they should be able to get the box as well.

It comes down to this, if you don't want to find a box, then don't.
Don't complain about it, just skip it and move on to the next one. I
don't expect everyone to be able to find all of my boxes, and am not
disappointed if they don't. Heck, I was proud that I had a box that
went 18 months before it was found, it was just a hard box. I have one
box on the top of a mountain that you have to pay to ride a ski lift to
get to. It is not for everyone. Not everyone will be willing to pay to
ride it, and not everyone will be willing to even get on the ski lift,
but I like the box, and that is all that matters.

Yes, yes it is exclusive to force a choice, and you know what, that is
just too bad. would be pretty boring if all the letterboxes out there
were in the same types of places, wouldn't it? So yes, not every
letterbox is for every letterboxer, it is something you should learn to
live with, because that is how life is.

--
Nathan Brown

AKA Cyclonic
Penncoasters.com

The Insensitivity rolls on...

Virginia may be for lovers, but Pennsylvania has Intercourse!






















_________________________________________________________________
See what youre getting intobefore you go there
http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


RE: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Jars Of Clay (jarsofclaylb@hotmail.com) | Date: 2007-08-27 23:24:35 UTC
*tongue in cheek* well, let's be fair to them shall we?!?!?!?!To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.comFrom: Cyclonic07@aol.comDate: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 22:19:18 -0400Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions


















mizscarlet731 wrote:
>> It is still different then geocaching, there is still a point to it. I
>> call it geoboxing.
>>
>> --
>> I thought it was called lettercaching.
>>

I think Geoboxing has a nicer ring to it, and works better. After all,
you are not caching anything in the box, and it may confuse the
geocachers who may walk off with your stamp and leave a plastic mouse in
its place.

--
Nathan Brown

AKA Cyclonic
Penncoasters.com

The Insensitivity rolls on...

Virginia may be for lovers, but Pennsylvania has Intercourse!






















_________________________________________________________________
Messenger Caf open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served daily. Visit now.
http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_AugWLtagline

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


[LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: gwendontoo (foxsecurity@earthlink.net) | Date: 2007-08-27 23:47:44 UTC
>
> I try to do this. C'mon, "tooth-shaped rock". How much
> clearer can one be :-)
>
> Cheers
> Randy
>
Hi Randy

That would be a "wisdom" tooth of course.

Don


Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Randy Hall (randy@mapsurfer.com) | Date: 2007-08-27 19:18:32 UTC-05:00

> _to me_ that just turns letterboxing into geocaching.

[My emphasis]

I don't expect to add much original thought to this thread
that hasn't been rehashed a few billion times since May 4th,
2000, but, I will add a couple of facts, FWIW --

* One of the earliest letterboxes placed, (long before
geocaching.com, SA was turned off, etc., placed by the
webmaster of the first (AFAIK) letterboxing-related website),
had clues that were GPS coordinates. No one complained
then, IIRC. It was only after geocaching was "invented" on
or about May 4th, 2000, that these complaints seemed to
surface.

* An acquaintance of mine has found hundreds of geocaches
listed on geocaching.com, and does not own a GPS unit.

Like all text, clues, this thread, or otherwise, it remains
up to the role of the reader as to whether the reporting of
these facts has any value or not.

And, to offer an opinion, at the risk of claiming the emperor
has no clothes, from the point of encountering text that
describes the location of something hidden to the point of
setting eyes on the hidden container, there is _absolutely
zero difference_ in these games. Of course, like most
semiotic problems, the text comes with so much baggage, like
what it is called, what website it happens to be hosted on,
cultural, etc., that, while it is tempting to declare these
debates abjectly silly on the surface, it is not so after
considering this baggage, many times of which it is not easy
to be aware of or free oneself from. (and I am intimately
familiar with clues that demonstrate this principle so
brilliantly, if I may say so myself). I will, however,
reiterate my opinion that these debates are abjectly silly
in the aspect that they offer no original thought (including
this one, but it can be fun sometimes, can't it? :-)).

In any case, some clues I've written have been done with
GPS unit in hand, and while I never offer intent on how they
are to be figured, I will offer it is likely much easier if
the seeker also has a GPS unit. As as been said, if you don't
like them, don't do them (a sentiment that really could have
been said as the first response to this thread (and probably
was), and ended it (and probably didn't)). Unlike others,
however, I don't care one way or the other if anyone looks for
them. It is all what we make of it.

Well, I must have written this post a billion times, but
it is fun each time. The word choice and lyric always comes
out a bit different, and if I can make it even more
pretentious than last time, so much the better :)

Finally, I will endorse Silver Eagle's post in this thread.
There is a difference between clever and unclear. Perhaps I
can sum up a sentiment that we can all live with:

"Use concise directions in the parts that aren't part of the puzzle."

I try to do this. C'mon, "tooth-shaped rock". How much
clearer can one be :-)

Cheers
Randy





[LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: ogoshi63 (ogoshi63@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-08-28 01:46:52 UTC
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Betty"
wrote:
>
Gas is pretty expensive in CT. Hehe. Not quite that much. But I
agree think the point was missed.
> Hmmm, I think you've missed the point.
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, sandra listorti
> wrote:
> >
> > Wow. Where are you buying gas that it costs $75 to drive 50
> miles? Around these parts it would cost less than $5 if you have a
> car that gets decent mileage.
> >
> > Domedreamer
> >
> > Betty wrote:
> > "and not everyone can afford a gps unit"
> >
> > "Perhaps, but everyone who can afford to drive 50 miles to find a
> > letterbox certainly can. My Lowrance iFinder GO cost me $75
> online."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>



Re: Concise Directions

From: Rusty Judd (r2judd@bestweb.net) | Date: 2007-08-27 22:09:36 UTC-04:00
Oooh where do you find gas for 2.52? I'm coming over there right now

I do have a GPS but half the time it says Aquiring satellites usually
when I am at the roads I don't know well.....

Gas here in town is 3.19 down from 3.40 a month ago


And with my own two eyes I have seen it a half hour down the road for

3 .08 3.06 and

I kid you not

2.92


I didn't think gas came in 2s anymore





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: sandra listorti (domedreamer@sbcglobal.net) | Date: 2007-08-27 19:18:56 UTC-07:00
Oh for the love of Pete! I didn't miss the point! I am sorry that my sense of humor is so deficient that no one gets the joke, but believe me, I understand both sides of the argument perfectly well. What I don't understand is why people are arguing about it. Do the boxes you want, don't do the ones you don't or can't. There are plenty out there no matter what your financial situation is regarding gas, gps, whatever. Frankly, I am done with the whole issue.

Domedreamer

ogoshi63 wrote: --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Betty"
wrote:
>
Gas is pretty expensive in CT. Hehe. Not quite that much. But I
agree think the point was missed.
> Hmmm, I think you've missed the point.
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, sandra listorti
> wrote:
> >
> > Wow. Where are you buying gas that it costs $75 to drive 50
> miles? Around these parts it would cost less than $5 if you have a
> car that gets decent mileage.
> >
> > Domedreamer
> >
> > Betty wrote:
> > "and not everyone can afford a gps unit"
> >
> > "Perhaps, but everyone who can afford to drive 50 miles to find a
> > letterbox certainly can. My Lowrance iFinder GO cost me $75
> online."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


RE: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Gretchen Caldwell (boston.rott@verizon.net) | Date: 2007-08-27 22:27:30 UTC-04:00
I paid $2.57 today (metro-west Boston area). :)

BostonRott

-----Original Message-----

Oooh where do you find gas for 2.52? I'm coming over there right now



Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Nathan Brown (Cyclonic07@aol.com) | Date: 2007-08-28 00:09:21 UTC-04:00
Jars Of Clay wrote:
> no need to get so feisty I didn't realize I wasn't allowed to have an opinion on the topic. I said do what you like. I once climbed up a mountain while it was raining so hard the trail was a river. It doesn't matter you have your opinion I have mine. Agree to disagree and move on. Deal with the fact that I don't agree with you. being nasty isn't necessary. I said to each his own what more do you want?


That was "feisty?" Boy, you have no idea what feisty is.

Not once did I say you couldn't have an opinion, I just said your
opinion was wrong.

Now I'm starting to be "feisty"

--
Nathan Brown

AKA Cyclonic
Penncoasters.com

The Insensitivity rolls on...

Virginia may be for lovers, but Pennsylvania has Intercourse!



Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Nathan Brown (Cyclonic07@aol.com) | Date: 2007-08-28 00:11:18 UTC-04:00
letterbox@comcast.net wrote:
> Ha! I'm sure it is just a temporary equipment malfunction and the heat will be back before you know it ;-)
>
> SpringChick
>
>


I'll have you know our equipment is always in top working order down here...

DAMN, I gave it away!

--
Nathan Brown

AKA Cyclonic
Penncoasters.com

The Insensitivity rolls on...

Virginia may be for lovers, but Pennsylvania has Intercourse!



Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Nathan Brown (Cyclonic07@aol.com) | Date: 2007-08-28 00:17:35 UTC-04:00
Randy Hall wrote:
> > _to me_ that just turns letterboxing into geocaching.
>
> [My emphasis]
>
> Blah, blah blah, Blah, Blahblahblah
>
> Cheers
> Randy
>
>


You know, with all the words in there, I just can't help but think there
isn't a clue in there.

There isn't though... I don't think?

;-)

--
Nathan Brown

AKA Cyclonic
Penncoasters.com

The Insensitivity rolls on...

Virginia may be for lovers, but Pennsylvania has Intercourse!



Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Nathan Brown (Cyclonic07@aol.com) | Date: 2007-08-28 00:25:11 UTC-04:00
Rusty Judd wrote:
> Oooh where do you find gas for 2.52? I'm coming over there right now
>
> I do have a GPS but half the time it says Aquiring satellites usually
> when I am at the roads I don't know well.....
>
> Gas here in town is 3.19 down from 3.40 a month ago
>
>
> And with my own two eyes I have seen it a half hour down the road for
>
> 3 .08 3.06 and
>
> I kid you not
>
> 2.92
>
>
> I didn't think gas came in 2s anymore
>
>

Ouch. Got it for 2.53 outside of Philly the other day.

Just thinking, how many directions can one thread go in? I need some
more concise directions to this thread now.

--
Nathan Brown

AKA Cyclonic
Penncoasters.com

The Insensitivity rolls on...

Virginia may be for lovers, but Pennsylvania has Intercourse!



Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Suzanne Coe (wilmcoe@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-08-27 21:58:28 UTC-07:00
If you diagram the sentences in the 5th & 6th paragraphs, you end up with a contour map of Sausalito.

Sheba

Nathan Brown wrote:
Randy Hall wrote:
> > _to me_ that just turns letterboxing into geocaching.
>
> [My emphasis]
>
> Blah, blah blah, Blah, Blahblahblah
>
> Cheers
> Randy
>
>


You know, with all the words in there, I just can't help but think there
isn't a clue in there.

There isn't though... I don't think?

;-)

--
Nathan Brown

AKA Cyclonic
Penncoasters.com

The Insensitivity rolls on...

Virginia may be for lovers, but Pennsylvania has Intercourse!





Yahoo! Groups Links






---------------------------------
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


RE: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Jars Of Clay (jarsofclaylb@hotmail.com) | Date: 2007-08-28 10:33:15 UTC
LOL ok we could be done now I suppose.


To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.comFrom: Cyclonic07@aol.comDate: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 00:09:21 -0400Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions




Jars Of Clay wrote:> no need to get so feisty I didn't realize I wasn't allowed to have an opinion on the topic. I said do what you like. I once climbed up a mountain while it was raining so hard the trail was a river. It doesn't matter you have your opinion I have mine. Agree to disagree and move on. Deal with the fact that I don't agree with you. being nasty isn't necessary. I said to each his own what more do you want?That was "feisty?" Boy, you have no idea what feisty is.Not once did I say you couldn't have an opinion, I just said your opinion was wrong.Now I'm starting to be "feisty"-- Nathan BrownAKA CyclonicPenncoasters.comThe Insensitivity rolls on...Virginia may be for lovers, but Pennsylvania has Intercourse!






_________________________________________________________________
Messenger Caf open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served daily. Visit now.
http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_AugWLtagline

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


[LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Lightnin Bug (rpboehme@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-08-28 11:10:29 UTC
Ah yes, that certain bicuspid! Twas in a beautiful spot, regardless
of the season and the whole "flat cat" of a debate.

LB




>
> Finally, I will endorse Silver Eagle's post in this thread.
> There is a difference between clever and unclear. Perhaps I
> can sum up a sentiment that we can all live with:
>
> "Use concise directions in the parts that aren't part of the
puzzle."
>
> I try to do this. C'mon, "tooth-shaped rock". How much
> clearer can one be :-)
>
> Cheers
> Randy
>



[LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Betty (floridasunsets1017@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-08-28 13:15:11 UTC
Lol! Don't make me get my red pen out!
Florida Sunsets

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Suzanne Coe wrote:
>
> If you diagram the sentences in the 5th & 6th paragraphs, you end
up with a contour map of Sausalito.
>
> Sheba
>
> Nathan Brown wrote:
> Randy Hall wrote:
> > > _to me_ that just turns letterboxing into geocaching.
> >
> > [My emphasis]
> >
> > Blah, blah blah, Blah, Blahblahblah
> >
> > Cheers
> > Randy
> >
> >
>
>
> You know, with all the words in there, I just can't help but think
there
> isn't a clue in there.
>
> There isn't though... I don't think?
>
> ;-)
>
> --
> Nathan Brown
>
> AKA Cyclonic
> Penncoasters.com
>
> The Insensitivity rolls on...
>
> Virginia may be for lovers, but Pennsylvania has Intercourse!
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from
someone who knows.
> Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



Re: Concise Directions

From: ogoshi63 (ogoshi63@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-08-28 19:32:46 UTC
Our gas is about 2.77 a gallon here. I'd like 2.50. Remember when it
was under 2 dollars? Hasn't slowed me up letterboxing however.
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Nathan Brown
wrote:
>
> Rusty Judd wrote:
> > Oooh where do you find gas for 2.52? I'm coming over there right
now
> >
> > I do have a GPS but half the time it says Aquiring satellites
usually
> > when I am at the roads I don't know well.....
> >
> > Gas here in town is 3.19 down from 3.40 a month ago
> >
> >
> > And with my own two eyes I have seen it a half hour down the road
for
> >
> > 3 .08 3.06 and
> >
> > I kid you not
> >
> > 2.92
> >
> >
> > I didn't think gas came in 2s anymore
> >
> >
>
> Ouch. Got it for 2.53 outside of Philly the other day.
>
> Just thinking, how many directions can one thread go in? I need
some
> more concise directions to this thread now.
>
> --
> Nathan Brown
>
> AKA Cyclonic
> Penncoasters.com
>
> The Insensitivity rolls on...
>
> Virginia may be for lovers, but Pennsylvania has Intercourse!
>



[LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: ogoshi63 (ogoshi63@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-08-28 19:33:44 UTC
Yikes!! I was a math major not English. I hated diagramming
sentences.
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Suzanne Coe wrote:
>
> If you diagram the sentences in the 5th & 6th paragraphs, you end
up with a contour map of Sausalito.
>
> Sheba
>
> Nathan Brown wrote:
> Randy Hall wrote:
> > > _to me_ that just turns letterboxing into geocaching.
> >
> > [My emphasis]
> >
> > Blah, blah blah, Blah, Blahblahblah
> >
> > Cheers
> > Randy
> >
> >
>
>
> You know, with all the words in there, I just can't help but think
there
> isn't a clue in there.
>
> There isn't though... I don't think?
>
> ;-)
>
> --
> Nathan Brown
>
> AKA Cyclonic
> Penncoasters.com
>
> The Insensitivity rolls on...
>
> Virginia may be for lovers, but Pennsylvania has Intercourse!
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from
someone who knows.
> Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: (Stellabaker123@aol.com) | Date: 2007-08-28 21:07:22 UTC-04:00
Life is full of choices.? Some by necessity some by choice.? So you can choose to have a compass, a GPS, a walking stick etc. Some can do hard hikes some can do pass-byes some my want tospend the money to go to a park or zoo, some may not.?

So just do the boxes you can and choose to do and enjoy letterboxing.
STAR:W+S=DRR
---Original Message-----
From: Suzanne Coe
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 11:25 pm
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions






you would have to pay ME to ride the ski lift....

Nathan Brown wrote: I have one
box on the top of a mountain that you have to pay to ride a ski lift to
get to.

---------------------------------
Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: zess devine (zess.devine@gmail.com) | Date: 2007-08-28 22:24:27 UTC-04:00
LOL! This is hysterical!!

For some reason that completely eludes me, I've been following this thread.
I only dabble in reading the posts to several letterboxing lists, so it is
unusual for me to follow such a long (and, I hasten to say, silly) thread.
It started before my vacation & is still going on! I was reading some posts
a couple of days ago and said to myself, "Self, you have 8 billion things to
do, this thread is going nowhere & has little bearing on your life at this
point, why, in God's name, are you spending so much time reading all the
posts???"

Well, fortunately, Sheba provided the explanation. I waded through the muck
long enough to be rewarded with a good laugh. Thanks Sheba!! :-)

~zess~

On 8/28/07, Suzanne Coe wrote:
>
> If you diagram the sentences in the 5th & 6th paragraphs, you end up
> with a contour map of Sausalito.
>
> Sheba
>
> Nathan Brown > wrote:
> Randy Hall wrote:
> > > _to me_ that just turns letterboxing into geocaching.
> >
> > [My emphasis]
> >
> > Blah, blah blah, Blah, Blahblahblah
> >
> > Cheers
> > Randy
> >
> >
>
> You know, with all the words in there, I just can't help but think there
> isn't a clue in there.
>
> There isn't though... I don't think?
>
> ;-)
>
> --
> Nathan Brown
>
> AKA Cyclonic
> Penncoasters.com
>
> The Insensitivity rolls on...
>
> Virginia may be for lovers, but Pennsylvania has Intercourse!
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who
> knows.
> Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



--
"..... The Bus came by and I got on, that's when it all began ....."
http://groups.google.com/group/the-grateful-letterboxers?hl=en


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: sandra listorti (domedreamer@sbcglobal.net) | Date: 2007-08-31 11:04:06 UTC-07:00
It. Was. A. Joke.

Domedreamer


--- Kirbert wrote:

> sandra listorti wrote:
>
> > Wow. Where are you buying gas that it costs $75
> to drive 50 miles?
> > Around these parts it would cost less than $5 if
> you have a car that
> > gets decent mileage.
>
> If you think the cost of gasoline is the only cost
> involved in
> driving, you've got another think coming. And if
> you can find a car
> that costs less than 25 cents a mile to operate,
> including fuel,
> maintenance, tires, insurance, and depreciation of
> the car itself,
> buy it. That'll make the 100-mile round trip cost
> $25. If you can
> afford that, you can afford $75 for a GPS. I'm
> sorry, but the excuse
> that a GPS is unaffordable just doesn't wash for
> anyone who travels
> at all to find letterboxes. People don't buy a GPS
> because they're
> scared of the technology or just not interested in
> it, not because
> they can't afford it.
>
> -- Kirbert
>


Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: tony pecchia (anthony.pecchia@cox.net) | Date: 2007-08-31 21:56:17 UTC-04:00




I'm sorry, but the excuse
that a GPS is unaffordable just doesn't wash for anyone who travels
at all to find letterboxes. People don't buy a GPS because they're
scared of the technology or just not interested in it, not because
they can't afford it.

-- Kirbert


Yes, it does wash. It's called living on a budget, where you pick and choose what you can afford to spend money on. Just because you choose to spend $X on ABC, doesn't mean you have $Y to spend on DEF.

Not everyone has cash to buy whatever they want, whenever they want. Your argument about being scared of technology doesn't wash.



Tony

_,_.___
Messages in this topic (0) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic
Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar

Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity
a.. 12New Members
Visit Your Group
Health Zone
Look your best!

Groups to help you

look & feel great.

Yahoo! Finance
It's Now Personal

Guides, news,

advice & more.

Summer Shape-up
on Yahoo! Groups

Trade weight loss

and swimsuit tips.
.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: (barrudaki@comcast.net) | Date: 2007-09-01 03:02:33 UTC
I have to agree with Tony on this one. If I want a GPS system I'm going to budget for it and not buy a cheap one from a company that may not be around next year to update it. There are some people who don't think a GPS system is a top priority and won't bother to budget extra money to buy one. Not only that but a GPS system in my opinion is still on the level of Mapquest.com it can still be wrong. I would rather save my money and wait for the technology to get better than waste the money on something I will have to replace because the cheap model is not compatible with improved technology.

Granted a GPS system can be helpful however unless the creator of the box uses GPS coordinates it's not going to help you get the exact location on the letterbox. I know someone mentioned using GPS coordinates for their letterbox earlier which I don't see a problem with, if the box is still around when I get a GPS system I'll be more than happy to look for it :). But I'm not going to rush out and buy one just because someone else thinks I should have one to letterbox.

When people run around and around in circles we say they are crazy. When planets do it we say they are orbiting.
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "tony pecchia"

> I'm sorry, but the excuse
> that a GPS is unaffordable just doesn't wash for anyone who travels
> at all to find letterboxes. People don't buy a GPS because they're
> scared of the technology or just not interested in it, not because
> they can't afford it.
>
> -- Kirbert
>
>
> Yes, it does wash. It's called living on a budget, where you pick and choose
> what you can afford to spend money on. Just because you choose to spend $X on
> ABC, doesn't mean you have $Y to spend on DEF.
>
> Not everyone has cash to buy whatever they want, whenever they want. Your
> argument about being scared of technology doesn't wash.
>
>
>
> Tony
--
--
.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Randy Hall (randy@mapsurfer.com) | Date: 2007-08-31 23:21:16 UTC-05:00

>> I'm sorry, but the excuse
>> that a GPS is unaffordable just doesn't wash for anyone who travels
>> at all to find letterboxes. People don't buy a GPS because they're
>> scared of the technology or just not interested in it, not because
>> they can't afford it.

> Yes, it does wash. It's called living on a budget,

I wrote a rather long and pretentious post (as usual) on this earlier
in the day, but decided to let it drop. Perhaps I should have, but it
is difficult to let things that are just plain wrong go by, especially
when, as Tony points out, it does wash.

To summarize, GPS devices are luxury goods that add expense on the
margin. (all terms intended to be construed as economics jargon).
They are above and beyond the travel expenses articulated (not
quoted above, but in the original post). Moreover, many of the
travel expenses articulated can be amortized over non-letterboxing
activities (eg -- depreciation of the car, insurance, and the like),
and in American society, a car is a necessity as opposed to a luxury.

On the flip side, it is unlikely that the cost of a GPS unit can be
amortized over the number of letterboxes that require the use of a GPS
unit to find (if the putative owner, for cultural or other irrational
reasons, is not interested in geocaching). (And even if it can, there
is still _some_ cost on the margin beyond the travel costs).

Put in plain English (and a dash of latin), if one is paying $75 to
travel to a letterbox that does not require a GPS unit to find, they
would pay $75 + X to travel to one requiring a GPS unit to find,
ceteris paribus; and that X on the margin is beyond some consumers,
and can be as high as another $75 if it is the only letterbox in their
universe that requires a GPS unit to find. Even if the $75 for the
GPS unit _can_ be amortized, it is not irrational to forgo that
upfront cost if one is on a budget, and has no means, prima facie,
to amortize it.

All the economics BS aside, I can look at this problem from my
perspective. I own, and use, and old Garmin 12X for letterboxing.
However, when that unit fails, I will not replace it. I am not
afraid of the "technology" (obviously, since I am already comfortable
using the unit (and its not "technology", its like using a toaster),
nor am I "not interested" (obviously, because within the last 3
months, I used the unit to create an outdoor puzzle). I am 100%
motivated by the cost of replacing the unit in refusing to replace
it. I don't have alot of money, and if I had a disposable $75,
would rather take my family out to dinner than buy a GPS unit.

Any other practitioners of the dismal science on the list want to
debate this thread, bring it on :-)

Well, my earlier deleted post was much more elegant than this one, but
this one gets the job done of killing the thread. Silversun Pickups
are playing now, and it is time to go. (If anyone can name a better
modern band, bring it on :-) (Sum 41 doesn't count))

Cheers
Randy




RE: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Jars Of Clay (jarsofclaylb@hotmail.com) | Date: 2007-09-02 11:35:01 UTC
ACTUALLY (not to start in with you again b/c we all know that it'll just go back and forth) when you have to save the gas money to go boxing getting a GPS unit seems a little extravagant and your generalized statement about people and financial choices regarding GPS I think is rather smug and would have been better left unsaid. There are poor people who sometimes just have to go without the things they want or at the very least do what they can when they can.


To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.comFrom: PalmK@nettally.comDate: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 17:42:52 -0400Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions




sandra listorti wrote:> Wow. Where are you buying gas that it costs $75 to drive 50 miles? > Around these parts it would cost less than $5 if you have a car that> gets decent mileage.If you think the cost of gasoline is the only cost involved in driving, you've got another think coming. And if you can find a car that costs less than 25 cents a mile to operate, including fuel, maintenance, tires, insurance, and depreciation of the car itself, buy it. That'll make the 100-mile round trip cost $25. If you can afford that, you can afford $75 for a GPS. I'm sorry, but the excuse that a GPS is unaffordable just doesn't wash for anyone who travels at all to find letterboxes. People don't buy a GPS because they're scared of the technology or just not interested in it, not because they can't afford it.-- Kirbert






_________________________________________________________________
Explore the seven wonders of the world
http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=7+wonders+world&mkt=en-US&form=QBRE

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


RE: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: Gail Metzger (queenofswords110@yahoo.com) | Date: 2007-09-02 12:43:52 UTC-07:00
I agree, if you want to geocache, then geocache; if you want to letterbox, letterbox! Is this just an American phenomenon that we can't leave well enough alone sometimes or is this debate taking place in other parts of the world, say - Dartmoor??

Jars Of Clay wrote: here here!To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.comFrom: teamgreendragon2003@yahoo.comDate: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 13:58:49 +0000Subject: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

>I discussed the idea at length on the AQ boards, and
>everyone -- simply EVERYONE -- told me there is nothing anywhere that
>says a letterbox cannot involve using a GPS to find.

From what I've seen of the AQ boards, it appears to be mostly newbies
patting each other on the back about having an icon of a cake pop up
next to their names and other such drivel. I wouldn't consider it a
source to be taken seriously.

On the other hand, you are right, there is nothing that says you
can't clue your boxes in this way. Kind of takes away from the spirit
of the whole thing though, I think.

Brian
TeamGreenDragon

__________________________________________________________
Learn. Laugh. Share. Reallivemoms is right place!
http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


RE: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

From: xxxxxxxx (BrighidFarm@comcast.net) | Date: 2007-09-02 15:36:01 UTC-05:00
Eeeeeewwwww. Dartmoor. I'm in England now and then to visit relatives. I
rarely letterbox over there. Compass directions compass directions compass
directions. Can you say compass directions?

And no, I'm not technologically-challenged in the use of a compass. But too
much of it can get a li'l boring. A lot of it can get a lot boring.

That might be why a lot of letterboxers over there imbibe more than a li'l
bit. :-)

But they do have some very nice stamps.

~~ Mosey ~~

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Gail Metzger
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 2:44 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [LbNA] Re: Concise Directions


I agree, if you want to geocache, then geocache; if you want to letterbox,
letterbox! Is this just an American phenomenon that we can't leave well
enough alone sometimes or is this debate taking place in other parts of the
world, say - Dartmoor??

Jars Of Clay wrote:
here here!To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.comFrom:
teamgreendragon2003@yahoo.comDate: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 13:58:49 +0000Subject:
[LbNA] Re: Concise Directions

>I discussed the idea at length on the AQ boards, and
>everyone -- simply EVERYONE -- told me there is nothing anywhere that
>says a letterbox cannot involve using a GPS to find.

From what I've seen of the AQ boards, it appears to be mostly newbies
patting each other on the back about having an icon of a cake pop up
next to their names and other such drivel. I wouldn't consider it a
source to be taken seriously.

On the other hand, you are right, there is nothing that says you
can't clue your boxes in this way. Kind of takes away from the spirit
of the whole thing though, I think.

Brian
TeamGreenDragon

__________________________________________________________